what is a pinny lean

[tim0402]

i dont understand it i see it mentioned all the time, thanks.

[Dark Horse]

An opinionated line that is shaded to offer the player a better deal on a, in Pinny's opinion, worse side. Scalpers who play both sides at different books have funneled untold amounts of money from other books to Pinnacle, making the latter in effect a gambling syndicate masquerading as a book. A downside to the players is that this has made it much harder for other books to offer reduced juice.

[Masu485]

Pinnacle knows who's winning the game, no matter what most posters say, Pinny knows. When you see a line at -140 everywhere, but -110 at Pinny, they want you on the -110, because it's a better # than at other places. This way, they get everyone's money when the -110 loses.

Not only that, but since the other team (~+120) would be a winner, seeing it only available at +105 or +100 at Pinny, would cause bettors who want that team, to bet it at another book. Thus, Pinny still loses no money. They are masterminds in this respect. While of course it is not 100%, I have noticed this take place at rate far greater than chance.

Also, the Pinny lean should not be confused with Pinny manipulating lines to protect themselves from teasers. You may have a team that is -4 -115 at Pinny, while -4.5 at other places. This does not mean as much, as Pinny is just teaser protecting themselves.

[strixee]

I have noticed this take place at rate far greater than chance.

What is the size of your observation?

[wrongturn]

i dont understand it i see it mentioned all the time, thanks.

In simple terms, If Pinny offers one side better than anybody, the other side is a "Lock".

[Monte]

Much nonsense in this thread..first of all, line movement back in the days often started at Greek/Cris or all 3, and Pinny's line simply looked spectacular cos they would offer +3 +110 while Greek/Cris simply go to +3.5.

Pinny prolly doesn't know more than other big books, heck they follow SBO for soccer with every step they make.
They just know how to manipulate scalpers etc...

[hutennis]

In simple terms, If Pinny offers one side better than anybody, the other side is a "Lock".

So you know where to find "Lock"
Now, thanks to you, I know that and every one on SBR knows that too.
Is that reasonable to assume that other books that are being screwed by Pinny's shroud tactics, took a note for them selves?
And if they did, what stops them from adjusting accordingly?

[Dark Horse]

Much nonsense in this thread..first of all, line movement back in the days often started at Greek/Cris or all 3, and Pinny's line simply looked spectacular cos they would offer +3 +110 while Greek/Cris simply go to +3.5.

That's not a lean, 'first of all'.

If Pinny clearly wants you to take a side, don't bite. They're not in the habit of bluffing.

You can get more out of a Pinny lean if you look deeper, but the problem is that the lean may not be consistent, because they may change agents for a market. If that agent has a different approach, your nice little breakdown suddenly won't work.

[jolmscheid]

Winning percent of a pinny lean?

[jolmscheid]

How does this work for moneyline sports like MLB?

[wrongturn]

So you know where to find "Lock"
Now, thanks to you, I know that and every one on SBR knows that too.
Is that reasonable to assume that other books that are being screwed by Pinny's shroud tactics, took a note for them selves?
And if they did, what stops them from adjusting accordingly?

Not sure if you were too serious about what I said. But definitely other books don't want to see their lines deviate from Pinny's too much, or for too long. That is why they all have a line displaying service in front of them.

[hutennis]

But definitely other books don't want to see their lines deviate from Pinny's too much, or for too long. That is why they all have a line displaying service in front of them.

My point exactly.

With all relevant information being readily available and market being as transparent as it is, would not be pinny lean effect be easily negated by simple countermeasures?
And if books chose to do nothing, knowing everything that everyone else knows, would not that mean that they, collectively, don't even care all that much?

[wrongturn]

My point exactly.

With all relevant information being readily available and market being as transparent as it is, would not be pinny lean effect be easily negated by simple countermeasures?
And if books chose to do nothing, knowing everything that everyone else knows, would not that mean that they, collectively, don't even care all that much?

Not sure what your points are, but the only counter measure is to not sleep on the wheel.

[hutennis]

Not sure what your points are, but the only counter measure is to not sleep on the wheel.

Here is my point.

Books would not respond for "pinny lean" for two reasons:

1. They are asleep at the wheel and missed a legitimate market move started by pinny and confirmed by many others who was not asleep and did adjust.

Great! They deserve to suffer and players should welcome this opportunity.

2. Knowing everything that everybody else knows and being fully aware of possible motives, books (market) still don't see any reason to respond to a sharp discount offered by pinny.

Great! Whatever pinny's reasons are, its cheap line represents a good value and bettors should welcome this opportunity.
Unless, of course, it's statistically proven that such unilateral discount is strongly correlated to a final result.
However, if such prove would exist, books would know that and would pay as close attention to it as they do to an injury reports.

[Winner_13]

lol if u bet the lean in football the last couple of yrs u would be broke.

[hutennis]

lol if u bet the lean in football the last couple of yrs u would be broke.

Couple of years sounds like a lot.
Its just nobody gives a crap about years.
It is all about flips, you know.

So, how many flips was that exactly?
What is the record?

Could it be just a coincidence?
Do you even give coincidence a chance in your observations?
Or what you see is all there is?

[BeardedTaco]

bump

Is the pinny lean more relevant when it comes to 2h lines (more sharps betting 2nd halves no?)

Ex of today:

Pistons - 52
Bobcats - 40

Pinny opens at +1 -105 for Pistons. Line moves to +1 -109 and stays there. If I were to bet +1 -105 at a stale book would it most likely be a good bet given that I am close to the pinny no-vig line AND going with their lean?

[Justin7]

bump

Is the pinny lean more relevant when it comes to 2h lines (more sharps betting 2nd halves no?)

Ex of today:

Pistons - 52
Bobcats - 40

Pinny opens at +1 -105 for Pistons. Line moves to +1 -109 and stays there. If I were to bet +1 -105 at a stale book would it most likely be a good bet given that I am close to the pinny no-vig line AND going with their lean?

Maybe, maybe not. That is a small move on the 2h market. The implied pinny odds still suggest your bet is -EV after juice.

If you are going to shop pinny versus stale book, look for bigger moves. +1 vs +2 will be a +EV play, as long as the spread isn't entering the -0.5 to +0.5 zone. For example, Dallas is up by 2. Dallas +1.5, +2 and +2.5 all have the same win percentage. Some books will screw with you -- Pinny deals +2, and another book deals +2.5 -115. If you took the +2.5, you got zoo'ed.

[skrtelfan]

You still gotta have enough of an edge to beat the vig. The most common Pinny lean is when they deal +6 -111/-6 +101 on a game that everywhere else has at +6, so no one other than a dope will take the +6 -111 on Pinny. But +6 -110 isn't necessarily a good bet because the fair line likely falls somewhere between +6 -111 and +6 -101.

[antifoil]

it is what white people call purple drank.

[goblue12]

You still gotta have enough of an edge to beat the vig. The most common Pinny lean is when they deal +6 -111/-6 +101 on a game that everywhere else has at +6, so no one other than a dope will take the +6 -111 on Pinny. But +6 -110 isn't necessarily a good bet because the fair line likely falls somewhere between +6 -111 and +6 -101.

Yes and No.

While it's possibly the worst price on the board, it's one of the few shops that (apparently) accepts professional action.

If a sharp with a mid-6 to 7-figure bankroll gives the +6 -111 side a 55.55% chance of winning (-125/+125 on his numbers), he's looking to get down tens of thousands on that team to bet his full Kelly edge. Pinnacle is one of the few places will (apparently) take his bet.

You can probably spread it out among the -110 books, but I'm guessing that the sharp has been 86ed from the vast majority of those places.

[Raybolts]

Don't overthink it

[BeardedTaco]

I usually wager at pinny even if im getting 1 cent better at another non-pro/semi/pro shop. Gives me a longer shelf life at those places.

[Peregrine Stoop]

Winning percent of a pinny lean?

you can look this stuff up
until you start researching yourself, you are dependent on handouts