The Cavaliers are much better without MoWill and Delonte West!

[Mac4Lyfe]

This team seems to run the court much better without Mo "no show in the loff's" Williams and Delonte "have I taken my meds" West. These guys are 6 men off the bench at best. Cav's haven't looked this good in franchise history and don't need them coming back to mess up the flow..

[lakerboy]

So do you think they will play again? Dont you think LEbron will get tired?

[Mac4Lyfe]

Well of course they will play again but I wouldn't start them. I'd bring both off the bench. Gibson is a much better defender then Mo and can hit the 3's just as well if not better. Mo is a huge liability on defense. Lebron runs the point better than anyone else on the squad.

[babyanni]

Oddsmakers dead on total was 188 right on the button

[ijenpo]

Oddsmakers dead on total was 188 right on the button

What a horrible 4th Q. They scored 2 pts. in the last 2.5 mins or something.

[chase hardy]

This team seems to run the court much better without Mo "no show in the loff's" Williams and Delonte "have I taken my meds" West. These guys are 6 men off the bench at best. Cav's haven't looked this good in franchise history and don't need them coming back to mess up the flow..

I strongly disagree. Without Mo williams, this team cannot compete at the same level. He takes some heat off lebron.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Yet they are playing their best basketball without him

[mlb]

Your right trade them

[williams22]

Yet they are playing their best basketball without him

No they aren't, they've had a somewhat easy stretch at the perfect time. You've got to have an incredibly short memory to think that Mo doesn't add to this team. He is the best scorer on the team after Lebron, and Delonte is 3rd. We need both of them.

[flex1369]

without mo williams cleveland doesn't go anywhere...lebron can't carry the team by himself.

[LLXC]

I have to agree with the other posters, and disagree...

[Mac4Lyfe]

No they aren't, they've had a somewhat easy stretch at the perfect time. You've got to have an incredibly short memory to think that Mo doesn't add to this team. He is the best scorer on the team after Lebron, and Delonte is 3rd. We need both of them.

I never said that he didn't add to the team. I just think he's best suited off the bench. I think having him as the 2nd option scoring is a mistake and takes away from the flow of the game. The team is running the break faster and get more people involved with him out.

How could you say they've had an easy stretch? They've played some of the hottest teams lately. A surging Griz team, the Lakers, Miami. OKC and Toronto who both have been hot. They barely lost to Denver and Utah both on the road by less than 2 points else would have won 15 straight.

This Cav's team is better when it goes big no doubt in my mind. Mo can help off the bench but he shouldn't be a starter. Mike Brown is too loyal to bench Mo when he get's back but even the stat's show that the team's production is better with him out of the game.

[Mac4Lyfe]

without mo williams cleveland doesn't go anywhere...lebron can't carry the team by himself.

When has Mo carried any team? When has he ever shown up in an important game He's a bad smaller version of Iverson...

[KiDBaZkiT]

LeBron is picking up the slack for both of them and is running the point, which is one of many reasons why he is the most versatile player this league has ever seen period. Come playoff time you want him making plays without the ball in his hand. Gibson during the playoffs would get schooled come the conference finals as a starter.

[williams22]

When has Mo carried any team? When has he ever shown up in an important game He's a bad smaller version of Iverson...

Man what did Mo do to you? He's the best shooter on the team and they only guy that can create his own shot consistently outside of Bron and Red, you'd have to be crazy not to start him.

[williams22]

LeBron is picking up the slack for both of them and is running the point, which is one of many reasons why he is the most versatile player this league has ever seen period. Come playoff time you want him making plays without the ball in his hand. Gibson during the playoffs would get schooled come the conference finals as a starter.

Boobie can't handle the ball, and Lebron can't handle the ball for 40 minutes a game on top of everything else he has to do.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Man what did Mo do to you? He's the best shooter on the team and they only guy that can create his own shot consistently outside of Bron and Red, you'd have to be crazy not to start him.

I love Mo on the team but I'm a realist as well. He is a liability on defense and doesn't help the offense. He is not a true PG and cannot create his own shot. Where are you getting that from? He benefits with Lebron getting him open shots. Whenever he plays against a good PG he get's shut down. He is just as bad with the ball as Boobie turning the ball over. He's never been a PG he's more of a 2 but he's too small.

I'm glad he's on the team and he's an integral part of the team BUT I said it last year and I'm saying it this year. Cleveland will not win a title with him starting PG. Good teams will shut him down and he will be another no show going up against top PG's. He needs to come off the bench. He can be a Vinny Johnson "microwave" type of player if he puts his ego in check. Same for Delonte. I love their heart but they both are not starters.

[lyon804]

Bottomline guys... Cleveland has the personnel to win a championship this year. They are talented and very deep. We all could debate MO against Gibson or whoever. Bottomline, is I could play the point for Cleveland and it would still be a good team. All this stuff really doesn't matter.. Anybody watching basketball right now would have to agree that the Cavs are the best team in the game.. All that means nothing right now.. Will they step up and win the tuff games in the postseason? When it counts. Now, I know Cleveland has handled LA this year, but if they were to meet in the Finals you have to say Lakers..especially in close games.. Bron, Bron and Williams are none of the Cavs are what I call Mr. Clutch.

[Dexter]

nah, they're better off with all these guys (come playoff time at least)

this goes to show you how good lebron is. he does it all for this team, and would still make them look like world champs if half the team went down. hes a defensive beast now, passing skills of a hall of fame pg, and his J has become deadly.

[Mac4Lyfe]

I agree Dexter: Do you remember right after the Cav's made the huge trade sending half their team elsewhere that the team dressed only 7 players but only played 6, 2 they had to bring up from the D-league. They were playing the Wiz and most degenerate's was slamming the Wiz line. I called the Cav's not only covering but winning the game because of Lebron.

I should change the title of the thread. I meant that the Cav's are better with Mo and West coming off the bench. I didn't mean for them to not be on the team.

[ngates815]

There was another thread about this....You stated that there are 80% PG's that would start ahead of MO/Delonte. I responded with this, and you never responded, I would like your thoughts.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few teams that would probably start Mo over their PG's now.


Mike Bibby - ATL
Calderon/Jack - Toronto
Felton - Charlotte(maybe)
Whoever Miami's starting pg is chalmers?/
Duhon - Knicks
Stuckey - Pistons
AI/Lou Williams - 76ers
Aaron Brooks - houston
Conley/tinsley - memphis
Flynn - minny.
whoever indiana's pg is

Thats just the pg's I could think that he would start ahead of...Maybe a couple on the list would be questionable. But he could also start as a 2 guard on many teams

[MadDog420]

Mac the title of this thread might be on of the dumbest I've seen on this forum in quite some time. Your evidence and reasoning is even worse. You think Gibson plays better d than both of them? That's unreal. All GIbson can do is sopt up and shoot. Can;t create his own shot. Not a tremendous ballhandler. Not even a good distributor of the ball. He is a 3pt specialist off the bench. Period. You obviously are a bandwagon fan, who only watches games on national tv. Been watching the cavs for the past ten years, every game, and Gibson is far from a reliable/good defender. You saw Mo flop out in the playoffs last year and have probably thought ever since that the dude sucks. That's fine, have that opinion, but I'm telling you that will drastically change after the playoffs this year.

And why would we ever bring those 2 off the bench? Do you watch the beginning of the 2nd quarter when Bron is on the bench and Mo takes over the whole team? Yup, Mo is nothing better than a 6th man.

[ngates815]

^^^^Thank god someone who actually watches NBA, and not just looks at nba.com and judges every team by that.

[Mac4Lyfe]

I've seen EVERY Cav game for the past 6 years. I know this team very well. Why not go over to a Cavs forum and see what people think there. Anyone that watches the Cav's knows full well that Boobie is a much better defender than Mo. MUCH BETTER!!! Boobie has been a clutch performer in clutch moments. Give me one Clutch performance Mo has ever had in his lifetime in a big game??? He never did it at Bama and he hasn't done it in the NBA. I don't give a shit about him coming through in meaningless regular season games. In the clutch, Mo is a no show.

Mo IS NOT A PG... He is a streak shooter that is a tweener. He does not direct the offense as he's horrible at dishing. He is one of the lowest assist little guys and his assist to turnover ratio is poor. He is a defensive liability where other teams exploit at will plus he screws the flow of the game by limiting touches of other players. There's much more to basketball then a guy who can shoot. That's all Mo does for Cleveland.

[Mac4Lyfe]

There was another thread about this....You stated that there are 80% PG's that would start ahead of MO/Delonte. I responded with this, and you never responded, I would like your thoughts.

Off the top of my head I can think of a few teams that would probably start Mo over their PG's now.


Mike Bibby - ATL No freaking way. Bibby 2x more efficient, takes care of the rock and is a true point. He defends and steals much better than Mo.

Calderon/Jack - Toronto - JJ takes care of the ball better, more efficient, better assists. I'd give Mo an edge though.

Felton - Charlotte(maybe) - Very even comparison. Felton better assist, better rebounder, steals, assist/TO. Put him with Lebron like Mo and he's probably better.

Whoever Miami's starting pg is chalmers?/ Chalmer's is 1 year in the NBA. He plays a lot less minutes than Mo but I'd concede Chalmer's at this point.

Duhon - Knicks - I'll give you Duhon

Stuckey - Pistons - no freaking way. Stuckey is better all around.

AI/Lou Williams - 76ers - AI would be doing what Mo does if he was in Cleveland. Push

Aaron Brooks - houston - Mo can't slash to the hole like Brooks. Brooks is a better scorer. Very close comparison of the 2 as both are defensive liabilities. Slight edge to Brooks.

Conley/tinsley - memphis, another even comparison. Conley is a little better all around.

Flynn - minny. - I'd take Flynn in a heartbeat. He is an up and coming star. Better rebounder, defender, steal, assist and can score just as much if needed.

whoever indiana's pg is - I'll give you Earl Watson.

Thats just the pg's I could think that he would start ahead of...Maybe a couple on the list would be questionable. But he could also start as a 2 guard on many teams

By my count that's 4 PG's I would start Mo over...

Here are the PG's that are better than Mo and most of these aren't even close...

Tyreke Evans
Derek Rose
Aaron Brooks
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Rodney Stuckey
Brandon Jennings
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Stephen Curry
Andre Miller
Chris Paul
Ty Lawson
Jason Kidd
Chauncey Billups

Mo can do one thing... Score. He doesn't do anything on the defensive side, no rebounds, steals, stop opposing PG's. He's not a true PG that can take care of the ball and dish dimes to teammates.

You take it as a knock on Mo but it's being real. He can score and that's important in the NBA but his other liabilities can't be ignored. He is best suited coming off the bench and the past few weeks without him is showing it. Lebron is the best PG on the Cav's. The other guys are tweeners including Boobie.

[williams22]

By my count that's 4 PG's I would start Mo over...

Here are the PG's that are better than Mo and most of these aren't even close...

Tyreke Evans
Derek Rose
Aaron Brooks
Deron Williams
Steve Nash
Rodney Stuckey
Brandon Jennings
Tony Parker
Baron Davis
Russell Westbrook
Rajon Rondo
Stephen Curry
Andre Miller
Chris Paul
Ty Lawson
Jason Kidd
Chauncey Billups

Mo can do one thing... Score. He doesn't do anything on the defensive side, no rebounds, steals, stop opposing PG's. He's not a true PG that can take care of the ball and dish dimes to teammates.

You take it as a knock on Mo but it's being real. He can score and that's important in the NBA but his other liabilities can't be ignored. He is best suited coming off the bench and the past few weeks without him is showing it. Lebron is the best PG on the Cav's. The other guys are tweeners including Boobie.

Your argument is starting to sound ridiculous. I bolded guys that are in no way close to being better than Mo. Boobie IS NOT A TRUE PG. In fact, I believe he's had 0 assists in games in which he's started at point recently. Mo's ball-handling is infinitely better than Boobie's and he has a complete offensive package, Boobie does not.

I've never seen a Cavs fan with such a negative opinion of the one guy who may be most responsible for keeping Lebron in Cleveland.

[MadDog420]

I honestly can't believe you still defending the fact that Gibson is a better defender. And what else can Boobie do if all Mo can do is score? Don't even try to tell me he can drive better, ballhandle, or has the mid range game Mo has. You're saying Boobie is clutch because he hit a game winner a few weeks ago and had a good playoff run 3 years ago. Besides that when has dude been clutch? And for the past 6 years you've been watching? Exactly what I'm talkin about bandwagon Lebron fan. Where were you before they picked him up? Dont believe you've seen every game for the past 6 years, but if it's true you have no idea about the game of basketball. Glad i know that though, so I can never take your advice on an NBA game. Felton, Conley, AI, Steph Curry, Dre Miller better than Mo? Is this a joke? GTFOH and go look at UF's recruiting class again.

[ngates815]

were not talking about in the future here...Of course they'd rather have those rookies/2nd season guys in 10 years. were talking about right now.

The cavs would not start.

Flynn, curry, Lawson AND ESPECIALLLY Bibby over Mo this year, when they are trying to win a ring.

[Mac4Lyfe]

I honestly can't believe you still defending the fact that Gibson is a better defender. And what else can Boobie do if all Mo can do is score? Don't even try to tell me he can drive better, ballhandle, or has the mid range game Mo has. You're saying Boobie is clutch because he hit a game winner a few weeks ago and had a good playoff run 3 years ago. Besides that when has dude been clutch? And for the past 6 years you've been watching? Exactly what I'm talkin about bandwagon Lebron fan. Where were you before they picked him up? Dont believe you've seen every game for the past 6 years, but if it's true you have no idea about the game of basketball. Glad i know that though, so I can never take your advice on an NBA game. Felton, Conley, AI, Steph Curry, Dre Miller better than Mo? Is this a joke? GTFOH and go look at UF's recruiting class again.

Dude, I use to go to games in Richfield probably before you were squirming in your daddies nuts. I've had NBA league pass for years and I DVR every Cav's games and have seen every one of them the past few years. My best friend is good friends with Lebron's uncle and we've seen him play since he was in Junior HS. I've probably gone to more Cav's games in 1 year then you have in your lifetime.

Boobie is a much better defender than Mo. Mo is one of the worst defenders in the league. You must be an idiot if you don't know that. They both are poor ball handlers and both are prone to turnovers. Boobie has a better 3 pt % then Mo. But I'm not comparing Boobie and Mo. Not once did I say that Boobie was better than Mo but I've said the team would be better with Mo coming off the bench. Mo is fortunate that he plays with Lebron along with several other players. Lebron makes Mo look much better than he really is. Break Mo's pt's per minute and other stats and it's pretty clear that he scores by taking alot of shots. AI can do what he does too. Along with a bunch of other players.

Don't take my advice in the NBA. If you like to lose money then keep being a uneducated square. All you have to do is look at my leans in these forums to know what side to bet on. I'm not going to shed a tear because you don't like what I'm saying.

[Mac4Lyfe]

were not talking about in the future here...Of course they'd rather have those rookies/2nd season guys in 10 years. were talking about right now.

The cavs would not start.

Flynn, curry, Lawson AND ESPECIALLLY Bibby over Mo this year, when they are trying to win a ring.

The Cav's would take Curry in a heartbeat. Lebron was lobbying for him big time. Mo is only 6 years in the league so it's not like he's a huge veteran. Flynn and Lawson both have better upsides. The Cav's probably wouldn't want to mess up chemistry but don't be surprised to see Mo being dealt down the road. Funny that someone mentioned that Lebron wants Mo but that's never been the case. Lebron has always lobbied for Gibson.

[darrell74]

This team seems to run the court much better without Mo "no show in the loff's" Williams and Delonte "have I taken my meds" West. These guys are 6 men off the bench at best. Cav's haven't looked this good in franchise history and don't need them coming back to mess up the flow..

I love that J.J. Hickson guy.
That guy is such a cleanup scrapper.

Stats aren't glorious, but he has the hustle and he's a good cleanup guy.
Gets loose balls, chases rebounds, sets good pics.

[lyon804]

I've seen EVERY Cav game for the past 6 years. I know this team very well. Why not go over to a Cavs forum and see what people think there. Anyone that watches the Cav's knows full well that Boobie is a much better defender than Mo. MUCH BETTER!!! Boobie has been a clutch performer in clutch moments. Give me one Clutch performance Mo has ever had in his lifetime in a big game??? He never did it at Bama and he hasn't done it in the NBA. I don't give a shit about him coming through in meaningless regular season games. In the clutch, Mo is a no show.

Mo IS NOT A PG... He is a streak shooter that is a tweener. He does not direct the offense as he's horrible at dishing. He is one of the lowest assist little guys and his assist to turnover ratio is poor. He is a defensive liability where other teams exploit at will plus he screws the flow of the game by limiting touches of other players. There's much more to basketball then a guy who can shoot. That's all Mo does for Cleveland.

That it true. I am from Alabama and watched him throughout his playing career and he was not very good. Talented and scored some points, but was just a volume shooter that made awful decisions on the court. Costly turnovers. Did not guard anybody. I was surprised he was drafted to be honest. Alabama has had many like him that was never drafted.. Just a ghetto hoop star, not a true gamer. Trust me guys.. You don't want any basketball players out of Alabama. He is who he is now because of Lebron. Mo Williams if he went to the Nets right now he would blend in perfectly.

[lyon804]

Your argument is starting to sound ridiculous. I bolded guys that are in no way close to being better than Mo. Boobie IS NOT A TRUE PG. In fact, I believe he's had 0 assists in games in which he's started at point recently. Mo's ball-handling is infinitely better than Boobie's and he has a complete offensive package, Boobie does not.

I've never seen a Cavs fan with such a negative opinion of the one guy who may be most responsible for keeping Lebron in Cleveland.

Williams, I know you like your Cavs and all, but you couldn't be more wrong about Russel Westbrook. That guy is for real and is twice the player Mo Williams every dreamed of being.

Westbrook was the main one I disagreed with that you bolded.

[Sure-Lock Holmes]

Mo was an ALL STAR just last yr...When West and Williams come back its only gonna make them stronger and DEEPER...LeBron is playin the point cause he has to...he does whatever it takes for them to win....whether its scoring, dishin' it, rbs....whatever it takes to WIN...That Hickson kid is getting better each gm..have u checked him out recently?? I like there team...Shaq said yeaterday that its the funnest team to be around that hes ever played on....thats a key

[Mac4Lyfe]

Mo was an ALL STAR just last yr...When West and Williams come back its only gonna make them stronger and DEEPER...LeBron is playin the point cause he has to...he does whatever it takes for them to win....whether its scoring, dishin' it, rbs....whatever it takes to WIN...That Hickson kid is getting better each gm..have u checked him out recently?? I like there team...Shaq said yeaterday that its the funnest team to be around that hes ever played on....thats a key

Mo made the All Star game because several people ahead of him didn't play/got injured. His All Star showing should have an asterisk next to it.

I will say again that I love Mo and I think he play's his heart out along with Delonte and the team will be stronger with both healthy BUT they are not as integral to the Cav's success as some think. There are plenty of good shooters that can come in and contribute in the same way. I'm not sure why some here are thinking that being a 6th man is a bad thing?? Mo and the Cav's would be much better served coming off the bench.

I think the Cav's would have the most success going big. The few times Mike Brown has done it the team has been dominant. We shall see how Brown handles player minutes when they all are healthy including Leon Powe. It's a good problem to have for sure.