nine.com shocking decision

[JC]

I think the better question here is what brought Nine.com up to "A?"

If it was because they were bought out by VIP which is an A, I assume it was because VIP would be taking over. If that's the reason they became an A, how come you are still dealing with the old Nine.com people instead of VIP people?

That being said, the people behind Nine.com who came from Grand Central Sports, and I don't know who is still there from back in the day did the right thing years ago. They were in trouble, got in a slow pay mode, but did what they had to do to right the ship. And for that they should be commended. Most places would have pulled the plug and opened up under a new name, but they stuck it out and made good on their obligations.

But back to my original question, what made them an A and what were they before they became an A?

[koko]

I've had problems with Nine and Joe earlier this year, and from that experience alone, I'm shocked they are an "A" rated book.

Nine called me to offer a reload bonus. I deposited enough to max it. Less than have way through completing the rollover requirements my online limits were cut from full limit to $1.

I wanted to cashout, but I couldn't due to not having met the rollover requirements. So, I had to call in my wagers, which I HATE doing.

When I'd call, I'd always get quoted a line that was 20-30 cents off of what was posted on the site.

I contacted SBR and they put gave me Joes contact info.

Joe ducked my calls for over a month. When I finally got through to him, it was by giving a wrong name and incorrect reason for my call.

I was on the phone with him for over 2 hours, while he tried to tell me that calling in bets was just as easy as betting online. He also tried to tell me that there was very little difference between betting a -110 and a -140 line. As said, "if you want to bet a team, you bet the team." He used an example of someone that was lost in the desert for a week without food. When they come to a town they'll order a burger to finally be able to eat something. When they do, they don't worry if the burger cost $5 or $7. They just want the burger so they order the burger."

In the end, I got my money out, but after all the shit I went through, I have no thoughts of going back.

[TLD]

He used an example of someone that was lost in the desert for a week without food. When they come to a town they'll order a burger to finally be able to eat something. When they do, they don't worry if the burger cost $5 or $7. They just want the burger so they order the burger."

Wow. What a piece of work this clown apparently is.

I agree with the many, many posters who contend that SBR has a real blind spot about this family of books--whether financially motivated or not I don't know.

[beetman]

That quote about the burger is almost the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The only thing more ridiculous might be nine.com's quoted policy of only accepting recreational bettors definting a recreational bettor as "someone who could bet either side of the game after seeing the line."

These guys are a total joke of a book and it amazes me that they're still rated as highly as they are.

[Kdawg]

A quick update...

Actually I have no update. I finally heard back from Justin a few days ago saying that he recommended nine.com pay me a certain amount (small number) but apparently they have refused. I don't really understand what has happened here. Maybe someone can help me? I was under the impression that if SBR recommends a certain course of action to a book, especially an A rated book, the book generally complies. If not, they immediately get a downgrade by SBR and a general warning from SBR about their behavior.

Am I wrong???? Did I miss something????

[bigloser]

We are talking VIP group, of course they are not going to be downgraded.

SBR really needs to do something about this.

SBR has always stood for the players and was a source the players could rely upon. The lack of action in respect of VIP is fast eroding the players trust.

Just read through some of the recent posts on them you will notice suspicion regarding SBRs motives creeping into several threads.

[Dark Horse]

SBR, please instate a rule in your rating system that a book can't earn an A rating under the umbrella of another book. This mess with Nine could have been avoided, and now threathens to undermine your excellent reputation. Apparently this book thinks it's above the rules. So slam it hard in the ratings. Nine should be glad with a C rating. Just my two cents.

Your previous answer to problems with Nine was that the book was basically excused because it had recently moved. Is that still the excuse for Nine?

[Yoshi]

agreed...Nine is a shit book, and the A rating is totally misleading.

[cincy_1]

In Summary

Nine
1) Cancel a bet shortly after read back
2) Refuse to take Justins calls
3) "Lose" the recording of the read back

AND

4) MAINTAIN THEIR RATING

In summary,

1) Player asks for a 10 dime wager
2) Player gets 10 dime wager
3) Player is informed he will given a 5 dime wager
4) Player accepts 5 dime wager

and

5) Player complains only AFTER his play wins.

[Kdawg]

wow cincy very impressive -- you're just about the only other person on the planet (other than SBR, presumably) who thinks nine.com acted properly here.

I didnt just agree to a 5 dime wager. I fought with the guy for 20 minutes about it and originally they wanted to give me only 500!!! he finally compromised at 5 dimes and i had no other choice. I was essentially forced to place the rest of the wager somewhere else (and can prove that) at a worse line. As fas as waiting to complain, as I previously mentioned, based on the way that asshole Joe treated me I was afraid they would steal the 11k in my account. Proof -- I didnt complain after game was over and had won. I complained 4 days later AFTER MY MONEY WAS OUT!!!!!

IF YOU'RE GOING TO ACCUSE AND JUDGE, PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT FIRST

[cincy_1]

IF YOU'RE GOING TO ACCUSE AND JUDGE, PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT FIRST

My facts are straight.

Did you not accept a 5 dime wager? 20 minutes or not - what difference does it make if you argued?

There are two separate things at play here:

Should nine still be an A book for how they treated you? NO
Should you be entitled to more money after you agreed to a 5dime wager? NO

Which one of these do you have a problem with?

[Yoshi]

your point 5 is wrong cinc, he doesnt complain about not winning more, he complains about getting a shit treatment from 5Dimes in general.

[Kdawg]

I have a problem with the 2nd one

That is tantamount to saying the following: Suppose I have 5k in a book and they call me one day and say hey we are not giving you the 5k. We will give you 3k or nothing. If you take the 3k, does that mean you sanction what they have done and do not deserve the other 2k you are owed????

I took the 5k bet becuase they were not going to give me more and wee going to hang up and give me nothing, so i took what i could get at the time. I called and spoke to their head managers -- all to no avail. That does not mean that I give up my rights to the rest of the bet they confirmed for me.

The bottom line is they gave me a read back and i confirmed with my acct and password. the fact that i took 5k does not absolve them of their duties as a professional sportsbook.

[cincy_1]

LIke I said, we have two separate issues:

One is compensation, the other is rating. Which one are we discussing? I have given you my view on both matters.

I finally heard back from Justin a few days ago saying that he recommended nine.com pay me a certain amount (small number) but apparently they have refused.

[cincy_1]

The bottom line is they gave me a read back and i confirmed with my acct and password. the fact that i took 5k does not absolve them of their duties as a professional sportsbook.

When you hung up, you agreed to a 5K wager. Had it lost, you would not have complained.

Also, if you want to discuss complaining - not all complaints have to be public. You could have easily shot SBR an email right there. You didn't.

[Kdawg]

Predominantly we are talking about rating

But we are also talking about compensation. Justin made a good point that they should pay me difference between the bet I had confirmed with them and the amount I had to pay at another book at a worse line. That is what we are talking about here...

[cincy_1]

Predominantly we are talking about rating

But we are also talking about compensation. Justin made a good point that they should pay me difference between the bet I had confirmed with them and the amount I had to pay at another book at a worse line. That is what we are talking about here...

I agree that a TOP RATED book shouldn't pull that sort of stunt.

That being said, I do not believe that you deserve compensation.

(I don't want this to become personal, so I won't reply further)

[Kdawg]

why would i send sbr an email at that point???
what would that have done for me?? the only thing sbr could do at that point is go to nine and tell them to honor the wager. But that defeats my whole purpose. That goes straight to Joe who has the ability to confiscate all my money!!!!!!

[cincy_1]

why would i send sbr an email at that point???
what would that have done for me?? the only thing sbr could do at that point is go to nine and tell them to honor the wager. But that defeats my whole purpose. That goes straight to Joe who has the ability to confiscate all my money!!!!!!

You have a point, and while I don't agree with everything you say, I agree that you have a right to be frustrated. They pulled a stunt that an A rated book shouldn't pull -

... and the worst thing is, they say don't even have a recording? How convenient.

SBR, can a book that doesn't record phone calls ever be A-rated?

[marc]

If I'm reading this all correctly then what we have is a player who called to place a 10k wager. Nine confirms the wager, the player immediately bets the other side. Then the book comes back after realizing that they were picked off and wants to reduce the wager to $500. Player argues, and gets 5k. That still leaves the player with 5k he now has to hedge at a much worse line, because he already bet the other side.

The player definitely deserves comepensation becuase he suffered a real loss as a result of the books unethical actions. I've placed wagers in error before, usually the result of betting the wrong side, and it has happened to most of us. Even when you call the book back immeditaely and ask if they will cancel it you get 3 responses

1) sorry but we don't cancel wagers
2) SInce the line hasn't moved, we will let you out, but don't do it again
3) Sorry the line has already changed

Once the line changes, the most you can offer to do is pay the difference in vig if the book will let you out. Thats what should happen here. The book confirmed the wager. The line moved, and now the book wants out. It shouldn't even be up to the book. But if they are going to insist the player let them out, they should have compensated him right away. I don't think there is any doubt in anyones mind, that if the player had hung up the phone right away, before the clerk was able to tell him of the change, NINe would have cancelled the wager, and only given the player $500

Nine.com has a long reputation of unethical behavior. The most common complaint is solciting players with offers of a 205 bonus, and then reducing thier limits right away to $1. Then when you call, you have no dea what line you will get. And if they see that you aren't taking the lousy lines they give you, they will clsoe your account and confiscate your bonus.

As far as safety of Funds, Nine is as safe as sportsbook.com. I would eve say that sportsbook.com is safer, becuase you can readily deposit by credit card. But sportsbook.com has a lousy rating purely do to thier cs issues. If VIP refuses to get involved in Nine.com's cs issues, and refuses to instate ethical business beavior, then there is no reason why Nine should be given the same rating as VIP. They are two very different books.

And if SBR gives nine the c- rating they deserve and VIP questions it, SBR should ask vip to respond to the plethora of legitanate player complaints. Then maybe VIP will recoginze that they have a problem that needs attention

[Dark Horse]

Nine.com has a long reputation of unethical behavior. The most common complaint is solciting players with offers of a 205 bonus, and then reducing thier limits right away to $1. Then when you call, you have no dea what line you will get. And if they see that you aren't taking the lousy lines they give you, they will clsoe your account and confiscate your bonus.

Good post, marc. If this is true (I believe you, but have no way of knowing), they are no better than thiefs. Take your money, then let you bet either $1 or call in for a bet with 'hamburger after the desert' (not even dessert!) type of vig. That's a scam if I've ever seen one.

Nine must be a lucky number.

[Kdawg]

Thank you Marc -- a great post indeed...

Now I am left with the question of what happened. As you point out, I the player should either be compensated or at the very least, if nine refuses, they should immediately be downgraded by SBR. Yet it has been a few weeks and neither has happened!!!

Perhaps you can shed some light on that?? Anything I can do now??

[Dark Horse]

Players should be warned about Nine. If not by SBR, then by other players. Maybe some sort of form like:

We all owe SBR a debt of gratitude for their tireless work in keeping books honest. Without the high standards set forth by A books our money would be far less safe.

Nine is not a book that has earned its A rating, but instead was granted that rating under the umbrella of VIP. A free ride. (admittedly, if I were to ever start a book this is the loophole I would explore. Immediate credibility and status!)

Gamblers who trust the A-rating, without searching this forum, may find themselves in a position of accepting a bonus at Nine, only to be limited to $1 bets or having to call in bets at ridiculous juice. Another complaint involved the book cancelling a five figure wager after it was confirmed.

Nine is not an A book. At least not in the opinion of the vast majority of posters here. Compared to other A books Nine sticks out like a sore thumb. If the behavior of Nine is allowed at the level of A rated books, that could negatively affect the high standards of other A books. In the long run allowing Nine to get away with unethical behavior could harm us all.

In spite of complaints, SBR has excused Nine, so far, because of a recent move. Some players have expressed suspicions towards SBR in this matter, involving their relationship with VIP. SBR has not replied to these concerns.

I would like to request that Nine is downgraded asap, because not downgrading them sends the wrong message to books and bettors alike. If you agree, please add your name.

DH.

Then again, maybe not.

[linebacker]

i agree

[SBR_John]

That wasnt the way it happened.

I heard the recording. The clerk simply made an error. He tried to enter the bet into the computer during the read back but the system wouldnt take it. Why? Because it was too large. The manager said no, only $5000.

As for the rating. Nine is at an A- and we are aware of the problems since they moved from Costa Rica a couple of months ago. We have visited Curacao and see the intergation into VIP. At the time we posted here that players could expect some problems as VIP clerks are crossed trained to handle Nine's business and we have indeed seen some issues. However, this is a good operation and one of the few that has every penny of players money onhand. They have honorable owners that have been in the business when there was only a handful of books. This is a very strong family of books.

[Yoshi]

As for the rating. Nine is at an A- and we are aware of the problems since they moved from Costa Rica a couple of months ago.

Problems with Nine have always been reported since they existed, not just in the last couple of months.

My rating: C

[Kdawg]

That wasn't the way it happened?? That was exactly what happened.

I asked for 10k and the clerk said there is a limit on the game and he would have to get authorization. When he came back on the phone he said "ok your wager has been approved here is your readback" after the full readback i confirmed with acct name and password.

Is any of that not true?? The fact that the clerk made an error and the wager was not really approved is the books concern, not mine. Do you think I should have said to the clerk, are you sure they approved it?? it sounds too big for them to have approved. check again.

Come on -- i did everything im supposed to and absolutely nothing wrong

[bigloser]

I spoke with the Nine.com.

first, Joe told me that the player did have a readback confirmation. Oddly though, he told me there is not a recording of the wagering call. This is very unusual for an "A" rated book. According to Nine, the wager was reduced from 10k to 5k the same day (possibly the same call).

John , there isn't a recording for you to listen to.

What is going on here ?

[cincy_1]

John , there isn't a recording for you to listen to.

What is going on here ?

As much as I was skeptical of KDawg at first, I am starting to get a sense that nine.com is making this up as we go.

Things don't pass the smell test with nine's story - or maybe its being reported incorrectly, but I can't imagine Justin would simply say that they didn't have a recording unless they said as much.

[TLD]

Things don't pass the smell test

Yep.

And now John's reporting what was said on a non-existent tape....

On the substance of the matter, I stand by every word of my post #27.

All that's been posted since then just makes Nine (VIP) look slimier and more evasive, as well as, unfortunately, making SBR's bias in favor of this mediocre outfit more evident.

If the goal is just to be "not as bad as" the other "watchdog" sites, then, yes, tilting things in favor of the VIP family is vastly better than touting BetUS, Royal, SBG Global and their ilk.

One would hope, though for higher goals.

Still, when the site unjustifiably pulls its punches, it's up to the posters to be frank in their assessments and make sure readers--including newbies--aren't misled by the ratings into thinking this is in fact an 'A' family of books.

[bigloser]

Was there a recording or not ?

[SBR_John]

There is... Maybe bill can get everyones permission and play it. Or post the transcript.

It was a clerk error. There is nothing "shocking" about this. As we have all said Nine jumbled this. But please... we see 10 things a day worse then this and some come from even the best books. The clerks and line guys are human at these places. Just regular guys. These are not stock brokers.

[bigloser]

Of course everyone makes mistakes.

Its just nine makes more than most

1 agreeing to the bet
2 saying that there was no tape when there was one
3 not agreeing to SBRs (Justins) compromise

Correcting this error would not have cost them a lot. Accept the bet then lay it off. Alternatively pay the bettor the difference in price.

It is often not the number of errors that are made that affects a books reputation rather it is how they deal with them.

[slash]

It was a clerk error. There is nothing "shocking" about this. As we have all said Nine jumbled this. But please... we see 10 things a day worse then this and some come from even the best books. The clerks and line guys are human at these places. Just regular guys. These are not stock brokers.

Huh???? Please list the 10 things from today then. Thanks in advance.

[Dark Horse]

John, is it true that bettor(s) have been cut to a $1 limit at Nine?