need another gambling forum

**Flying Dutchman** · 08-08-09, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

You sure know a lot. For someone who's been here 2+ months.

Thank you, glad you noticed.

**Dark Horse** · 08-12-09, 04:50 AM

I suppose the transition to meaningless was officially completed with the points system. Ho-ly crap. What a hilarious sell out. How is it possible that SBR would come to this? Where is the loyalty to early membership, or to anybody serious about sports betting?

**SPECULATOR 13** · 08-12-09, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by dark horse

i suppose the transition to meaningless was officially completed with the points system. Ho-ly crap. What a hilarious sell out. How is it possible that sbr would come to this? Where is the loyalty to early membership, or to anybody serious about sports betting?

DH,
i hope the guys in the front office know what they are doing because this place will become retard city in a hurry as it QUICKLY did back in 07 two mths after I joined.

**SBR_John** · 08-12-09, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by SPECULATOR 13

DH,
i hope the guys in the front office know what they are doing because this place will become retard city in a hurry as it QUICKLY did back in 07 two mths after I joined.

Dont worry guys. It will developed and no way will it be a way to promote meaningless posts. No one wants that. Give it a little time. Bill and his staff are smart guys who work their tails off.

**Bill Dozer** · 08-12-09, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by unknown Gambler

This forum is here to make money,and in order to do that, they need the average square,strickly intelligent gambling theory is not going to cut it and is a dieing breed on most sports forums.

So you see sharp guys like DH are having problems with the dumbing up of the forum where as SBR needs this type of poster to survive.

SBR has already diverted my suggestions to DH as to where he may find the type of forum content he is looking for.

I understand where your coming from DH, there are basically 2 choices, deal with the dumbing down of the board or leave to be with others whose interest and goals are the same as yours.

DH,If YOU GO TO THE PROMOTIONS SUB FORUM YOU WILL SEE THEY DIVERTED MY SUGGESTION TO YOU ABOUT A DECENT SITE THAT MIGHT BE UP YOUR ALLEY, SCHROLL DOWN TILL YOU SEE THIS THREAD WITH THE WORD DIVERTED NEXT TO IT.

BOL either way.

There are different types of sports gamblers. We have the sports bar guys who want to hang out with the same. We have people looking for NFL models and custom spreadsheets and we have the hardcore cappers looking at game by game breakdowns. And, of course there are also the sportsbook information guys who stop in to gain info or share experiences.

Players Talk is the first group with some of everything else sprinkled in. Almost any topic goes. It's label is "the SBR Lobby."

The Sportsbook Forum and Think Tank is where the most focused infomation is. We advertise the Think Tank to bring together the best minds and the Sportsbook Forum is linked from SportsbookReview and given to hundreds of players who write in daily.

Do you guys think we do a good enough job managing those boards? Moderating?

We started out with one forum and added the others to be sure everything had a place. Is there something Players Talk is losing that the forum doesn't do well with in the other focused forums?

**MonkeyF0cker** · 08-12-09, 08:18 AM

Bill,

The Think Tank has already become dumbed down. When a serious or prospective professional handicapper enters the site, where do they normally look first? Players Talk. This points system encourages EOG-style garbage threads like "Guess what I had for breakfast?" Anyone who potentially would contribute positively to the subforums will instantly look at those threads and dismiss the site as nothing more than a joke. There is simply no way that this system does not negatively impact the quality of the content here. That doesn't even account for the posters you'll lose due to its inception, one of them probably being myself...

**Dark Horse** · 08-12-09, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Bill Dozer

Do you guys think we do a good enough job managing those boards? Moderating?

We started out with one forum and added the others to be sure everything had a place. Is there something Players Talk is losing that the forum doesn't do well with in the other focused forums?

You have to get back to your base. Each forum site has its own identity and core. And if you change that too much, by trying to be all things to all people, you will not only lose your core, but you will eventually end up without identity.

Your base is sportsbookreviews. That attracted a certain type of player and there is your strength. The people you attracted based on that shared interest were the ones who helped build this forum.
Your credibility and integrity are rooted in sportsbookreviews. The forum, as it has become, is undermining that credibility. Where there once was quite a high degree of sharp players you now have kiddie posters who can't help themselves fast enough to a free baseball cap. Where you once had one contest (BTP) with nice prices (SBR John talking about a SUV as main price) you now have a hundred contests for 50 bucks. Yes, people will play for that too... And guess what? They'll even power post for pennies. But who are these people? The original crowd or 13-16 year olds?

Stay true to your base and your stock will rise. Get away from your base, by trying to be too many things to too many people, and your stock will tank. How many posters from the first year are still here? Remember that green bar? It was quality based; posters awarding other posters for creating and maintaining a certain standard. Compare that to today's point system.

I'm sure you can find a way, using sports betting methodology, to better balance quantity and quality (with regards to new point system). If you don't, the kiddie takeover has only just begun, as has the exodus of your original membership.

**SBR_John** · 08-12-09, 12:34 PM

Great post Dark Horse.

**Matt Rain** · 08-12-09, 12:40 PM

Kill the points thing before it bombs. It's early enough that we can pretend it didn't happen. Seriously.

**jjgold** · 08-12-09, 12:47 PM

Well Darker might be right to a degree but SBR numbers are rising and that is what really matters in business. They are here to make money and bit please 20 posters.

Mw, Rx and eog all failing miserably because they stayed the same and became stagnant with no new innovations like sbr.

You need to change and continue to upgrade in ant business.

Sbr would of failed like the rest if they just kept a forum, ratings and one contest prt qtr

**dwaechte** · 08-12-09, 01:04 PM

It's amazing, but JJ actually understands this business better than DH.

**Bill Dozer** · 08-12-09, 01:36 PM

Yes, like always, a very good post DH.

But don't give us too much credit

. We haven't set the forum plan in stone for the next two years. We can't do what everyone suggests but always have taken feedback and are listening. I've asked guys not to get too worried about what happens in this first 20 hours. We're having fun with something new. SBRpoints are here to stay but we can allocate them different ways to reward good contributions and maintain the board those posters invest in.

The key to success is being able to change without changing. The initial idea started was awarding guys who were blogging and adding good material to our community. We wanted to include those who are helping others with sportsbook info and Think Tank questions. We thought adding the ability to bet and win points to our contests would be fun.

Guys will see when the store is live that this is a rewards program, something fun, but it won't make sense to try to be a paid poster. There will be lots of ways to significantly build up your points. Posting fast won't be one.

**DacBietViet** · 08-12-09, 01:46 PM

Covers is the best!

**Mudcat** · 08-12-09, 02:08 PM

To be honest, in the post-UIGEA world, I don't even want good betting info being shared on public forums. The industry needs losers. From a business standpoint, it makes a lot more sense for me to publicly dispute good system info, and support forum yahoos with absurd ideas.

(I don't actually have it in my heart to do those things - I have this pesky conscience and too much pride - but I can certainly keep quiet and allow people to hang themselves if they are determined to do it.)

Pre-UIGEA, it seemed like there was an endless supply of people who were going to lose no matter how much good info they had in front of their noses. You could talk freely on public forums and it didn't make a dent.

Post-UIGEA, the average ability of off-shore bettors has increased and things are tighter all around. Helping the public has a much better chance of taking money directly out of my pocket.

Although we have got there for different reasons, it seems like SBRforum and I are pushing in the same dumbed down direction.

**smitch124** · 08-12-09, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Mudcat

To be honest, in the post-UIGEA world, I don't even want good betting info being shared on public forums. The industry needs losers. From a business standpoint, it makes a lot more sense for me to publicly dispute good system info, and support forum yahoos with absurd ideas.

(I don't actually have it in my heart to do those things - I have this pesky conscience and too much pride - but I can certainly keep quiet and allow people to hang themselves if they are determined to do it.)

Pre-UIGEA, it seemed like there was an endless supply of people who were going to lose no matter how much good info they had in front of their noses. You could talk freely on public forums and it didn't make a dent.

Post-UIGEA, the average ability of off-shore bettors has increased and things are tighter all around. Helping the public has a much better chance of taking money directly out of my pocket.

Although we have got there for different reasons, it seems like SBRforum and I are pushing in the same dumbed down direction.

I don't think you have to worry Mudcat, do you see how vehemently the majority argue against sound sportsbetting theory? You can lead the horse (no pun intended Dark) to water...

**Intuitive_Edge** · 08-12-09, 02:26 PM

Quality posts by Mudcat and Dark Horse

**Flying Dutchman** · 08-12-09, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by MonkeyF0cker

This points system encourages EOG-style garbage threads like "Guess what I had for breakfast?"

I liked the "which way do you wipe your ass" thread...

I'm careful to NOT drink cola when I read some of the sh*t here, I don't want cola coming out of my nose when I laugh hard...it hurts.

**Shortstop** · 08-12-09, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman

I liked the "which way do you wipe your ass" thread...

I'm careful to NOT drink cola when I read some of the sh*t here, I don't want cola coming out of my nose when I laugh hard...it hurts.

I hate when that happens!

**RogueScholar** · 08-12-09, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

I suppose the transition to meaningless was officially completed with the points system. Ho-ly crap. What a hilarious sell out. How is it possible that SBR would come to this? Where is the loyalty to early membership, or to anybody serious about sports betting?

I'm convinced this is why BBD was fired in February. That's when the SBR Points system was hatched and he refused to go along with it quietly, seeing that it would completely destroy any notion of quality or integrity on the forum. Let's ditch the Points and bring back BBD.

**sickler** · 08-12-09, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by RogueScholar

I'm convinced this is why BBD was fired in February. That's when the SBR Points system was hatched and he refused to go along with it quietly, seeing that it would completely destroy any notion of quality or integrity on the forum. Let's ditch the Points and bring back BBD.

Good one!

BBD was out in left field more than all the current mods combined.

**jjgold** · 08-12-09, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by dwaechte

It's amazing, but JJ actually understands this business better than DH.

I know the business inside and out

**Shortstop** · 08-12-09, 10:09 PM

BBD is sadly missed by many here.

**SPECULATOR 13** · 08-13-09, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Dark Horse

You have to get back to your base. Each forum site has its own identity and core. And if you change that too much, by trying to be all things to all people, you will not only lose your core, but you will eventually end up without identity.

Your base is sportsbookreviews. That attracted a certain type of player and there is your strength. The people you attracted based on that shared interest were the ones who helped build this forum.
Your credibility and integrity are rooted in sportsbookreviews. The forum, as it has become, is undermining that credibility. Where there once was quite a high degree of sharp players you now have kiddie posters who can't help themselves fast enough to a free baseball cap. The original crowd or 13-16 year olds?

Stay true to your base and your stock will rise. Get away from your base, by trying to be too many things to too many people, and your stock will tank. How many posters from the first year are still here? Remember that green bar? It was quality based; posters awarding other posters for creating and maintaining a certain standard. Compare that to today's point system.

I'm sure you can find a way, using sports betting methodology, to better balance quantity and quality (with regards to new point system). If you don't, the kiddie takeover has only just begun, as has the exodus of your original membership.

DH;

Originally posted by MonkeyF0cker

Bill,
When a serious or prospective professional handicapper enters the site, where do they normally look first? Players Talk. This points system encourages EOG-style garbage threads like "Guess what I had for breakfast?" Anyone who potentially would contribute positively to the subforums will instantly look at those threads and dismiss the site as nothing more than a joke. There is simply no way that this system does not negatively impact the quality of the content here. That doesn't even account for the posters you'll lose due to its inception, one of them probably being myself...

MONKEY,

Originally posted by jjgold

They are here to make money and bit please 20 posters.

You need to change and continue to upgrade in ant business.

Sbr would of failed like the rest if they just kept a forum

BULLSH*T,

You have been here long enough than to come up with such nonsense.

Originally posted by DacBietViet

Covers is the best!

DBV,

I have been there yesterday to check it out and i must admit i was intrigue by their forum,especially their Vegas section.
However their sportsbook evaluation list is a outrage, therefore one must
wonder about their credibility.IMO SBR is still the absolute best!!

**Mudcat** · 08-13-09, 07:57 AM

need another gambling forum

After all the discussion, that is still basically the whole story.

**CaneDawg** · 08-13-09, 08:01 AM

considering heading over to covers myself

the points thing is not for me...but i am only one...and maybe it is the wave of the future

might head over for football season and see how it goes

**RogueScholar** · 08-13-09, 11:11 AM

I got me another forum in mind too, Caner. SBR's so afraid of this one that they censor it out of posts and if you beat the censorship they throw it in promotions. I like the idea of getting involved with a forum that makes SBR nervous, means they might truly have something to offer.

**jjgold** · 08-13-09, 11:14 AM

If some guys are unhappy there are over 100 forums to choose from

Best of Luck

**RogueScholar** · 08-13-09, 12:25 PM

JJ's response sounds like that of Microsoft when Google started to completely steal their thunder and accomplish by pure innovation what Microsoft was accustomed to achieving by strong-arm tactics on the rest of the technology sector. The problem with that philosophy is that you paint a huge target on yourself as the big dumb bastard of forum bullies in the process and consequently unite the rest of the industry against you.

**Willie Bee** · 08-13-09, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by RogueScholar

I'm convinced this is why BBD was fired in February. That's when the SBR Points system was hatched and he refused to go along with it quietly, seeing that it would completely destroy any notion of quality or integrity on the forum.

Let's see, if the truth was say El Paso, your post would be Beaumont, completely across the entire state and as far as you could get from El Paso without leaving Texas. You really do need to cut back on the wacky tobacky there Pedro.

**jjgold** · 08-13-09, 01:02 PM

We know what we are doing

jealousy kills

**TheLock** · 08-13-09, 01:13 PM

Dark Horse makes several well thought out points in this thread. With that said, you may be better served DH to utilize the Ignore feature for any of the posters which take away from your SBR experiece. I realize that this will not address all of the issues you bring up (the point system for example), but it may help you swat a few flies.