ESPN NBA all time top ten players list

**DOM-Ganador** · 05-20-20, 12:07 PM

Racism also shaped his lifelong paradigm as a team player. "At that time," he has said, "it was never acceptable that a black player was the best. That did not happen ... My junior year in college, I had what I thought was the one of the best college seasons ever. We won 28 out of 29 games. We won the National Championship. I was the MVP at the Final Four. I was first team All American. I averaged over 20 points and over 20 rebounds, and I was the only guy in college blocking shots. So after the season was over, they had a Northern California banquet, and they picked another center as Player of the Year in Northern California. Well, that let me know that if I were to accept these as the final judges of my career I would die a bitter old man." So he made a conscious decision, he said, to put the team first and foremost, and not worry about individual achievements.On the hardwood, his experiences were far more pleasant. Russell led USF to NCAA championships in 1955 and 1956, including a string of 55 consecutive victories. He became known for his strong defense and shot-blocking skills, once denying 13 shots in a game. UCLA coach John Wooden called Russell "the greatest defensive man I've ever seen". During his college career, Russell averaged 20.7 points per game and 20.3 rebounds per game. Besides basketball, Russell represented USF in track and field events. He competed in the 440 yards (400 m) race, which he could complete in 49.6 seconds. He also participated in the high jump; Track & Field News ranked him as the seventh-best high jumper in the world in 1956. That year, Russell won high jump titles at the Central California AAU meet, the Pacific AAU meet, and the West Coast Relays. One of his highest jumps occurred at the West Coast Relays, where he achieved a mark of 6 feet 9 1⁄4 inches (2.064 m).

Wooden, " the greatest defensive man I have ever seen"
Ranked 7th best high jumper......IN THE WORLD.

Made a conscious decision to put the TEAM first and foremost, and not worry about individual achievements.

**lakerboy** · 05-20-20, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by DOM-Ganador

Most ludicrous statement you have ever made, and that is saying a lot.

Read any of the Red Auerbach books. Read a freakin` Laker book from the period and see what West had to say.

He had 21 opportunities, win or go home games, college, Olympics and NBA. 21-0.
You are either click baiting here, or are completely clueless.

You would defend him. I'm just tired of him. He was a 44% shooter and a 56%ft shooter. He got rebounds playing garbage teams in a useless league at that time. He played on the most dominant team. Great defending player. That's all. I get sick when I see him giving out the finals mvp.

**gojetsgomoxies** · 05-20-20, 02:21 PM

grunching now,

but how is wilt chamberlain not the greatest player ever? not the best. the best is usually the most recent players... in tennis and golf, if nicklaus or borg came back exactly as they were in the 70s they would get slaughtered.... greatest has to be relative to era.

wilt has 5 of the 6 greatest scoring seasons ever ....... wilt has 5 of the 6 greatest rebounding seasons ever..... wilt averaged 30 points and 23 rebounds in his career. this about that. 23 rebounds average........ he shot at 54% FG% ........... amongst big men, he has the highest assist per game rate (4.4).....

**gojetsgomoxies** · 05-20-20, 02:22 PM

it's interesting. i always thought of russell as undersized and super smart player....... but i had seen before today that he was elite high jumper. so his athleticism was off-the-charts..........

on wilt vs. russell, russell played with amazing players.... not sure about wilt.

**DOM-Ganador** · 05-20-20, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by gojetsgomoxies

it's interesting. i always thought of russell as undersized and super smart player....... but i had seen before today that he was elite high jumper. so his athleticism was off-the-charts..........

on wilt vs. russell, russell played with amazing players.... not sure about wilt.

This whole debate of Wilt vs. Russ comes down to one thing for me.

Toughness and BALLS. Russ was in the company of Jim Brown, MJ and many others who grew up in very tough environments, overcoming immense adversity and racism. Wilt, and in a very similar way LeBron, from the moment they stepped on the court, were coddled and heaped with adoration.

Anyone who would start a team with Wilt instead of Russell, would also start a team with Harden over Kawhi. Which would make me Red Auerbach and you Isiah Thomas as G.M.s.

**stevenash** · 05-20-20, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by DOM-Ganador

This whole debate of Wilt vs. Russ comes down to one thing for me.

Toughness and BALLS. Russ was in the company of Jim Brown, MJ and many others who grew up in very tough environments, overcoming immense adversity and racism. Wilt, and in a very similar way LeBron, from the moment they stepped on the court, were coddled and heaped with adoration.

Anyone who would start a team with Wilt instead of Russell, would also start a team with Harden over Kawhi. Which would make me Red Auerbach and you Isiah Thomas as G.M.s.

Agree with this post 100 percent.

**IBetYou** · 05-20-20, 10:06 PM

How many of you actually watched basketball in the 60s?

Bottom line: can't be top 10 playing only defense or only offense. I didn't watch 60s bball (nor even 80s) but a FT% like that suggests he wasn't all that skilled offensively. Only 6'10 so scoring in the paint vs the likes of Gobert would be hard for him -and no perimeter game to compensate?

Alonzo Mourning was an elite defensive player. 6'10 with basic offensive ability. Probably something like him imo.

**stevenash** · 05-21-20, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by IBetYou

How many of you actually watched basketball in the 60s?

Alonzo Mourning was an elite defensive player. 6'10 with basic offensive ability. Probably something like him imo.

Me neither, I was too young to remember anything before the Larry Bird / Magic Johnson era.

Like Mourning Patrick Ewing was an elite defender/offensive liability player too.

**IBetYou** · 05-21-20, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Me neither, I was too young to remember anything before the Larry Bird / Magic Johnson era.

Like Mourning Patrick Ewing was an elite defender/offensive liability player too.

Comparing apples & oranges there. Ewing was 7ft and had a feathery touch. Never agile like The Dream but he had a lot more ability than Mourning whom was an elite team defender with a mechanical offensive game.

**DOM-Ganador** · 05-21-20, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by IBetYou

How many of you actually watched basketball in the 60s?

Bottom line: can't be top 10 playing only defense or only offense. I didn't watch 60s bball (nor even 80s) but a FT% like that suggests he wasn't all that skilled offensively. Only 6'10 so scoring in the paint vs the likes of Gobert would be hard for him -and no perimeter game to compensate?

Alonzo Mourning was an elite defensive player. 6'10 with basic offensive ability. Probably something like him imo.

You seem to be stuck in individual #s, although important, not the most important thing when evaluating the total contribution to a
TEAMS success.

Honestly, just picked a random finals game from the 60s. C`s vs Lakers, game 6.
Russell 9/18, 7/10 FT, 18 Reb, 4 asst. and Celts win @ L.A. to go up 3-1. Oh yeah, he played 48 minutes.
West had 45 on 19/31, 7/10, and 10 assists.

The very interesting thing to me is so many people say the best from previous eras would stand no chance against the best of today.
I say bullshit. I am not talking the average Joe on any given team, I am talking the elite players from earlier eras.
They would also have all the advantages of todays athletes, along with an overall tougher inner strength.

For instance, even up to the 70s, teams in the NBA were clueless regarding nutrition. Paul Westphal, in his first couple years with the Celtics, he seemed to be tired and sick all the time. Team couldn`t figure it out. Turns out he comes all the way from the west coast and doesn`t really know anybody to room with or family to support him. So, he eats at McDonalds like 2x a day, 7 days a week. Bingo, lightbulb time.

Personal trainers. Scopes, no more slicing into your knees and the biggest one was the change in travel.
These monster guys used to travel by BUS around the northeast, and the fly commercial.
I don`t think a team in the NBA had their own plane until the Pistons in the late 80s.

So, give me Oscar, West, Russ, Baylor and yea even Wilt. Hondo as my 6th man. Red on the bench. All the benefits enjoyed by todays players.

If you want to argue analytics, fine. Probably wouldn`t find a Steph or KD, but I think if that was what the game was going to be, I could find a few snipers willing to hoist up a few.

**IBetYou** · 05-21-20, 10:43 AM

I didn't mention stats, I was talking ability. How many 6'10 centres with no shooting ability have scored well in the past 10 years?

You're right about players not taking care of themselves though. A lot of smokers in the old generation -back when it was cool, and easy to advertise.

**DOM-Ganador** · 05-21-20, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by IBetYou

I didn't mention stats, I was talking ability. How many 6'10 centres with no shooting ability have scored well in the past 10 years?

You're right about players not taking care of themselves though. A lot of smokers in the old generation -back when it was cool, and easy to advertise.

I forgot all the stories about halftime smoke fests in the locker rooms. Crazy.

IF shooting ability was an important factor for a Russell led team, I am going to go out on a limb and say he "might" have worked on and improved that skill. He was surrounded by scorers throughout the 11 chips. Jones, Heinsohn and Hondo were all very capable scorers.

**gojetsgomoxies** · 05-21-20, 04:30 PM

what are we judging though?..... would babe ruth be hitting alot of home runs today?

it's gotta be relative to the era........ as i said, there's no point comparing nicklaus to TW or borg/laver to federer/nadal if we don't judge to own time frame.

if you want the best players ever, just take the 2020 all-nba team

what if the NBA eliminates the 3-point line and goes back to a big-man dominant game?... does that mean LBJ and MJ aren't as great any longer?

it boggles the mind.

and does anyone actually think the celtics would have won fewer NBA titles if they swapped russell for wilt? or that russell would have won tons of titles without the celts?

**Goat Milk** · 05-21-20, 06:22 PM

Who knows all that matters is Russell isn't top 5 and neither is Duncan

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. James
4. Kareem
5. Magic

Best list out there. James goes to #2 if he wins another ring, even if he's the 2nd best player on the team.

Was thinking how many rings Kobe would have if Stern never vetoed the Chris Paul trade. Prolly 7 rings. Would maybe be #1.

**stevenash** · 05-21-20, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

Who knows all that matters is Russell isn't top 5 and neither is Duncan

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. James
4. Kareem
5. Magic

Best list out there. James goes to #2 if he wins another ring, even if he's the 2nd best player on the team.

Was thinking how many rings Kobe would have if Stern never vetoed the Chris Paul trade. Prolly 7 rings. Would maybe be #1.

Lebron James is not a top five all time great.

**Goat Milk** · 05-21-20, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

Lebron James is not a top five all time great.

He's a better player than Bird. Better player, more skills, better stats.

**stevenash** · 05-21-20, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

He's a better player than Bird. Better player, more skills, better stats.

I'm not saying Bird was better, what I am saying is I think James will go down as of the best players of this generation (2000-2020) along with Kirk, Kobe, etc. etc. but James is not an all time top five great.

Ask yourself this?
Has Lebron James ever led the league in any statistic of relevance?
No except for minutes played and that's testimony to his incredible work habits.

Now I am not hating on Lebron, he's one of the smartest on court basketball players of this generation, Bird was basketball smart too.

Ask yourself this too?
Do you consider James 'clutch'?
I don't. He's missed critical free throws in pressure games, he's missed a lot of critical shots also in high pressure games too.
Oh sure he's hit game winners, but I would not call him clutch by any means.

**Goat Milk** · 05-22-20, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

I'm not saying Bird was better, what I am saying is I think James will go down as of the best players of this generation (2000-2020) along with Kirk, Kobe, etc. etc. but James is not an all time top five great.

Ask yourself this?
Has Lebron James ever led the league in any statistic of relevance?
No except for minutes played and that's testimony to his incredible work habits.

Now I am not hating on Lebron, he's one of the smartest on court basketball players of this generation, Bird was basketball smart too.

Ask yourself this too?
Do you consider James 'clutch'?
I don't. He's missed critical free throws in pressure games, he's missed a lot of critical shots also in high pressure games too.
Oh sure he's hit game winners, but I would not call him clutch by any means.

No, I don't think he's clutch. I don't know if he's led in anything--leading in assists this year. He's always top 5 in points and assists. Not sure if he's won any scoring titles but not sure if that matters. Fact is I just don't see many better players than him all time. It's very hard to name 5 players better than Lebron James.

If you say Tim Duncan, I will abandon this thread.

**stevenash** · 05-22-20, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

No, I don't think he's clutch. I don't know if he's led in anything--leading in assists this year. He's always top 5 in points and assists. Not sure if he's won any scoring titles but not sure if that matters. Fact is I just don't see many better players than him all time. It's very hard to name 5 players better than Lebron James.

If you say Tim Duncan, I will abandon this thread.

No, I will not mention Duncan.

Like I said earlier the best players of this generation (2000-2020) James belongs easily, got to put Kobe in the same sentence as Lebron.
D-Wade, Shaq.
Point guards Kidd, Nash. Nash did win back to back MVP's.

James is easily top five, probably top three of this generation, don't forget about Leonard who may have the best all around game in the NBA.

But all time top five.
No.
Can't put him above Michael, or Wilt, or Bill Russel, or Kareem..........

**Goat Milk** · 05-22-20, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

No, I will not mention Duncan.

Like I said earlier the best players of this generation (2000-2020) James belongs easily, got to put Kobe in the same sentence as Lebron.
D-Wade, Shaq.
Point guards Kidd, Nash. Nash did win back to back MVP's.

James is easily top five, probably top three of this generation, don't forget about Leonard who may have the best all around game in the NBA.

But all time top five.
No.
Can't put him above Michael, or Wilt, or Bill Russel, or Kareem..........

Bill Russel and Wilt are not as good as James bro. They're not close to Bryant either. IMO those 2 guys didn't dedicate anywhere near the amount of time to the court. Wilt was considered a playboy, more like an Allen Iverson, gifted with natural God given talents but never really pushed through pain the way Kobe or Jordan did. Russell is more like an Embiid or a Shaq, guy who got started a bit late, but was big as fuk and eventually that size is what got him where he needed to go.

I don't see the work ethic of a James or Jordan or Kobe. Those are the 3 hardest workers I've ever seen. James spends 2 million dollars per year to keep his body in elite shape. 2 MILLION. I can't think of an athlete who's ever done that.

Kawhi? Bro, Kawhi averages like 17 a game for his career. Stop. He won a finals MVP averaging like 17 pts and 6 rebounds lol. Guy just started to get good in the last 3 years. Leonard barely beat GS without Durant Cousins or Klay Thompson.

This generation of players to me is Kobe and Lebron. D Wade, my second fav player of all time, is not even in that category imo. Lebron is 35 years old and averaging like 26 8 and 11 or some shit. Kawhi will have a 0% of doing that when he's 35.

**spippen** · 05-22-20, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Lebron James is not a top five all time great.

Agree. No he is sure not a top 5 player.

**IBetYou** · 05-22-20, 11:10 PM

Don;t be ridiculous.

**spippen** · 05-23-20, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by IBetYou

Don;t be ridiculous.

He is not

**IBetYou** · 05-27-20, 08:59 AM

All those people saying Bryant was more clutch... just read this

James is 10-for-25 (40 percent) in the playoffs on shots attempted when tied or trailing by two points or fewer in the final 24 seconds. Bryant was 7-for-28 (25 percent). James is 12-for-23 (52 percent) on playoff game-tying or go-ahead field goals with less than 10 seconds left. Bryant was 5-for-22 (23 percent). James has made five buzzer-beating game-winners in his playoff career. Bryant made one. This is not close.

**IBetYou** · 05-27-20, 09:00 AM

25% get the fuk outta here

**stevenash** · 05-27-20, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by IBetYou

All those people saying Bryant was more clutch... just read this

James is 10-for-25 (40 percent) in the playoffs on shots attempted when tied or trailing by two points or fewer in the final 24 seconds. Bryant was 7-for-28 (25 percent). James is 12-for-23 (52 percent) on playoff game-tying or go-ahead field goals with less than 10 seconds left. Bryant was 5-for-22 (23 percent). James has made five buzzer-beating game-winners in his playoff career. Bryant made one. This is not close.

I would love to see the same stats for Michael Jordan.

I do remember James making a buzzer beater in the playoffs against the Raptors which he would not have needed if James didn't brick a free throw 10 seconds before that miracle floater he took.

Funny how people forget about that bricked free throw that would have won the game in the first place.

**lakerboy** · 05-27-20, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

I would love to see the same stats for Michael Jordan.

I do remember James making a buzzer beater in the playoffs against the Raptors which he would not have needed if James didn't brick a free throw 10 seconds before that miracle floater he took.

Funny how people forget about that bricked free throw that would have won the game in the first place.

I ONLY remember three winners by him in playoffs. The one you mentioned. The one vs bulls in first year back in Cleveland and the shot he hit vs Orlando in a series they lost.

**sosawestbrook** · 05-27-20, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by IBetYou

All those people saying Bryant was more clutch... just read this

James is 10-for-25 (40 percent) in the playoffs on shots attempted when tied or trailing by two points or fewer in the final 24 seconds. Bryant was 7-for-28 (25 percent). James is 12-for-23 (52 percent) on playoff game-tying or go-ahead field goals with less than 10 seconds left. Bryant was 5-for-22 (23 percent). James has made five buzzer-beating game-winners in his playoff career. Bryant made one. This is not close.

**2daBank** · 05-27-20, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by MinnesotaFats

LOL 8 of 10 are Lakers or Celtics

Garbage bias list

No KG?
No Nash or Stockton
No Malone or Hakeem
Dirk??

Lmao. Steve Nash is on your all time top 10 list? I guess that makes sense considering you have cousins as a HOFer!!

Hakeem the only one you listed that even have a case as top 25 all time!!! Your list sucks pal!