Good Value on Joel Embiid to win the MVP at +1600

[thomorino]

The goal of baseball… bahahahhahaa

LMAO. also, rip embiid's acl, ankle, foot, etc after this thread was born

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2 unintelligent posters

[stevenash]

PER doesn't measure defense in any accurate or complete way, Embiid if the far better defender.

The offensive numbers you cite are wrong and misleading too, Embiid is the much better offensive player, but he dealt with injuries early in the year he's healthy now.

The Eastern conference is also much stronger and deeper than the West so your numbers, once again, fail, because they don't account for strength of schedule.

Numbers people like you can easily be replaced by people in India making 20 dollars a day. All you do is put data in - you don't know how to interpret anything, which is why you are a zero in general, including as a sports bettor.

Let's go heads up 100 picks 2 units each, loser leaves the forum forever, you never will, you'd get destroyed and you know it.

I rested my case.
I presented my case with stone cold facts.
My work is done here.
Not only that, you're doing what you always do, resorting to pejoratives and I'm not getting in the mud with you.
You can carry on without me.
Seriously.

[thomorino]

His name is Jokic by the way but I'm not going to play that silly game with you.

Let's break down your arguments, one by one, using only facts and figures only.
Not opinions that you perceive to be facts and figures, but actual data.
And I would like you to respond by checking the name calling and pejoratives at the door.

I'm not sure you know the precise definition of +/- is.
It's actually BMI (commoners refer to it as +/-)
BMI is an NBA metric that estimates the contribution to his team when that player is on the court.
BMI is a sequence of calculations.

Embid's +25 last night is skewed due to the fact when you consider the team on the court when Embid was active were the Orlando Magic.
The Magic, an 8-28 team that's 29th ranked defensively in the NBA.
Pick a defensive metric, any defensive metric, Orlando is next to dead last in just about every defensive category, depending on what metric you want to argue, only OKC and Detroit are worse.
The Magic are a laughing stock, for lack of a better team a JV squad.
Doesn't matter if Orlando's starting defensive team was on the court when Embid was active, or the scrub garbage time unit was active, Helen Keller and Ray Charles both would have come out of that game with a +25 tag.

According to the NBA, not what you or I think, but offically with the NBA says Jokic had the better night last night.
Regardless of 10, 27, or 42 minutes played.
Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		LAC	W	41:16:00	16	25	0.64	3	5	0.6	14	16	0.875	7	7	14	10	3	1	5	4	49	15	48.2
2	Joel Embiid	PHI		ORL	W	27:03:00	17	23	0.739	1	4	0.25	15	17	0.882	1	11	12	2	1	3	2	3	50	24	45.2
3	Trae Young	ATL		MIN	W	35:49:00	10	17	0.588	6	10	0.6	11	11	1	0	5	5	14	1	0	5	1	37	11	36
4	Luka Dončić	DAL		TOR	W	42:16:00	13	24	0.542	4	10	0.4	11	12	0.917	2	12	14	7	1	0	4	2	41	7	35.1
5	Dejounte Murray	SAS		OKC	W	30:15:00	11	20	0.55	1	6	0.167	0	0		3	7	10	14	3	0	1	0	23	19	29.4
6	Ja Morant	MEM	@	MIL	L	39:21:00	12	27	0.444	4	10	0.4	5	5	1	1	7	8	14	0	0	1	3	33	0	29.3

What was your other argument?
Oh yeah, you stated Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team in last season's playoff?
That Murray was?
How is that even possible because Murray wasn't even active in last season's postseason.
Murray didn't play a game, a quarter, or even a minute.
He was inactive.
The only way Murray could have outplayed Jokic in last season's playoffs is if Jokic was Claude Raines (the old time actor who played the role of the Invisible Man)

JUST STOP!

Lastly, I'm going to kill two birds with one stone.
You claim Embid is clearly the better elite defender?
In the official NBA metrics rating, Jokic (as you'll see under the DWS column) is the elite defender.
That's what the NBA says, and they know more than me and you combined.

Now, using the same chart as provided by the NBA, just using facts and figures, who is your MVP.
The operative word in MVP is VALUABLE.


See the VORP column on the right (VORP)
That's an acronym for Value Over Replacement Player.
Jokic is almost twice as valuable to his team as Embid is to his team.
Now you can't tell me VORP is not relevant, it's such a relevant stat that it's going to be adopted as a major factor determining first time free agents future contract salaries in MLB.
And down the road, all major sports.
Now VORP only applies comparing position players to other same position players.
Since Embid and Jokic both are centers, it 100 percent applies.

Read below, who has the better defensive ratings, who has the higher VORP rating?
Who's the better player, thus who is the MVP front runner.

Rk	Player	Pos	Age	Tm	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM▼	VORP
1	Nikola Jokić	C	26	DEN	38	1251	32.9	0.646	0.235	0.303	9.6	36.9	23.5	42.2	2.1	2.2	15.3	32.1		5.2	2.4	7.6	0.291		9.3	4.7	14	5
2	Giannis Antetokounmpo	PF	27	MIL	38	1239	31.1	0.613	0.207	0.578	6	29.5	18	34.9	1.5	4.5	13.1	35.2		4.8	2.3	7.1	0.276		6.8	3.6	10.4	3.9
3	Joel Embiid	C	27	PHI	33	1080	30.6	0.612	0.187	0.594	6.4	29	17.9	23.5	1.6	3.9	11.3	35.6		3.9	1.8	5.7	0.254		6.7	1.9	8.5	2.9
4	LeBron James	SF	37	LAL	33	1211	27	0.616	0.38	0.284	3.2	18.5	10.9	31.4	2.1	2.8	11.7	31		3.7	1.6	5.2	0.207		7.1	1.3	8.4	3.2
5	Jimmy Butler	SF	32	MIA	27	896	26.1	0.593	0.117	0.527	6.3	13.2	9.7	29.1	2.8	1.3	9.7	27.1		3.6	1.3	4.9	0.262		5.8	2.4	8.2	2.3
6	Kevin Durant	PF	33	BRK	36	1313	26.1	0.626	0.247	0.35	1.7	19.4	10.9	27.5	1	2.3	11.3	31.2		4.4	1.4	5.9	0.214		6.6	0.7	7.3	3.1
7	Stephen Curry	PG	33	GSW	40	1376	21.9	0.592	0.637	0.236	2	14.5	8.5	29.9	2.1	1.3	13.1	32		2.8	2.5	5.4	0.187		5.9	0.9	6.8	3.1
8	Ja Morant	PG	22	MEM	34	1105	24.5	0.572	0.231	0.329	4	15	9.3	35.8	1.9	1.2	12.9	31.7		2.9	1.2	4	0.175		5.9	0	5.9	2.2
9	Luka Dončić	PG	22	DAL	30	1050	21.7	0.533	0.381	0.296	2.5	25.3	13.8	45.7	1.7	1.2	16	35.9		0.6	1.8	2.4	0.108		4.2	1.6	5.8	2.1
10	Rudy Gobert	C	29	UTA	40	1296	25.5	0.732	0.003	0.863	12.5	36.7	25.1	5.1	1.2	6	14.6	16.9		4.8	2.7	7.5	0.277		3.2	2	5.3	2.4

I welcome debates like this, using only facts and figures, and data.
Feel free to comment, just check the name calling and argue facts, not opeinions.
Bear in mind this is what I do for a living.
I get paid very well for being an IT Operations Analyst for a life insurance company here in the insurance capital of the US
I deal with actuarials, life expectancy numbers.
I analyze and crunch those numbers.
Boring? Maybe to you and others, but it's who I am and it's what I do, and I'm good at it.
I have to be, million dollar life insurance policies ride on my figures.
I'm more than capable of arguing sports analytics.

The fact your little list has Durant ahead of Jimmy Butler, who can't even shoot 3's, proves my point, PER is not a good measure of anything.

Plus-Minus is fare better measure of a players impact on the game, because it accounts for offense and defense, and Embiid shits on Jokic in multiple ways, mostly including defense, which is why he was +24 and Jokic was only +15 last night.

Debate over.

If you look at offense, defense, and strength of schedule, Embiid is the MVP, and, again, its not close.

[thomorino]

I rested my case.
I presented my case with stone cold facts.
My work is done here.
Not only that, you're doing what you always do, resorting to pejoratives and I'm not getting in the mud with you.
You can carry on without me.
Seriously.

You cited a metric that has Jimmy Butler head of Kevin Durant, Kevin Durant is in the argument for MVP, Butler isn't in the conversation.

Just stop or this will get embarrassing.

You don't know how to apply math or analytics, you just cite irrelevant data.

[thomorino]

I rested my case.
I presented my case with stone cold facts.
My work is done here.
Not only that, you're doing what you always do, resorting to pejoratives and I'm not getting in the mud with you.
You can carry on without me.
Seriously.

Your little chart also suggest Dejounte Murray is better and more valuable than Morant. No person with a brain and eyes would believe.

Butler isn't better or more valuable than Durant, and Murray isn't better or more valuable than Morant, just stop.

And stop whining, no one is calling you names, you sound like a whiny little child.

[thomorino]

His name is Jokic by the way but I'm not going to play that silly game with you.

Let's break down your arguments, one by one, using only facts and figures only.
Not opinions that you perceive to be facts and figures, but actual data.
And I would like you to respond by checking the name calling and pejoratives at the door.

I'm not sure you know the precise definition of +/- is.
It's actually BMI (commoners refer to it as +/-)
BMI is an NBA metric that estimates the contribution to his team when that player is on the court.
BMI is a sequence of calculations.

Embid's +25 last night is skewed due to the fact when you consider the team on the court when Embid was active were the Orlando Magic.
The Magic, an 8-28 team that's 29th ranked defensively in the NBA.
Pick a defensive metric, any defensive metric, Orlando is next to dead last in just about every defensive category, depending on what metric you want to argue, only OKC and Detroit are worse.
The Magic are a laughing stock, for lack of a better team a JV squad.
Doesn't matter if Orlando's starting defensive team was on the court when Embid was active, or the scrub garbage time unit was active, Helen Keller and Ray Charles both would have come out of that game with a +25 tag.

According to the NBA, not what you or I think, but offically with the NBA says Jokic had the better night last night.
Regardless of 10, 27, or 42 minutes played.
Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		LAC	W	41:16:00	16	25	0.64	3	5	0.6	14	16	0.875	7	7	14	10	3	1	5	4	49	15	48.2
2	Joel Embiid	PHI		ORL	W	27:03:00	17	23	0.739	1	4	0.25	15	17	0.882	1	11	12	2	1	3	2	3	50	24	45.2
3	Trae Young	ATL		MIN	W	35:49:00	10	17	0.588	6	10	0.6	11	11	1	0	5	5	14	1	0	5	1	37	11	36
4	Luka Dončić	DAL		TOR	W	42:16:00	13	24	0.542	4	10	0.4	11	12	0.917	2	12	14	7	1	0	4	2	41	7	35.1
5	Dejounte Murray	SAS		OKC	W	30:15:00	11	20	0.55	1	6	0.167	0	0		3	7	10	14	3	0	1	0	23	19	29.4
6	Ja Morant	MEM	@	MIL	L	39:21:00	12	27	0.444	4	10	0.4	5	5	1	1	7	8	14	0	0	1	3	33	0	29.3

What was your other argument?
Oh yeah, you stated Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team in last season's playoff?
That Murray was?
How is that even possible because Murray wasn't even active in last season's postseason.
Murray didn't play a game, a quarter, or even a minute.
He was inactive.
The only way Murray could have outplayed Jokic in last season's playoffs is if Jokic was Claude Raines (the old time actor who played the role of the Invisible Man)

JUST STOP!

Lastly, I'm going to kill two birds with one stone.
You claim Embid is clearly the better elite defender?
In the official NBA metrics rating, Jokic (as you'll see under the DWS column) is the elite defender.
That's what the NBA says, and they know more than me and you combined.

Now, using the same chart as provided by the NBA, just using facts and figures, who is your MVP.
The operative word in MVP is VALUABLE.


See the VORP column on the right (VORP)
That's an acronym for Value Over Replacement Player.
Jokic is almost twice as valuable to his team as Embid is to his team.
Now you can't tell me VORP is not relevant, it's such a relevant stat that it's going to be adopted as a major factor determining first time free agents future contract salaries in MLB.
And down the road, all major sports.
Now VORP only applies comparing position players to other same position players.
Since Embid and Jokic both are centers, it 100 percent applies.

Read below, who has the better defensive ratings, who has the higher VORP rating?
Who's the better player, thus who is the MVP front runner.

Rk	Player	Pos	Age	Tm	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM▼	VORP
1	Nikola Jokić	C	26	DEN	38	1251	32.9	0.646	0.235	0.303	9.6	36.9	23.5	42.2	2.1	2.2	15.3	32.1		5.2	2.4	7.6	0.291		9.3	4.7	14	5
2	Giannis Antetokounmpo	PF	27	MIL	38	1239	31.1	0.613	0.207	0.578	6	29.5	18	34.9	1.5	4.5	13.1	35.2		4.8	2.3	7.1	0.276		6.8	3.6	10.4	3.9
3	Joel Embiid	C	27	PHI	33	1080	30.6	0.612	0.187	0.594	6.4	29	17.9	23.5	1.6	3.9	11.3	35.6		3.9	1.8	5.7	0.254		6.7	1.9	8.5	2.9
4	LeBron James	SF	37	LAL	33	1211	27	0.616	0.38	0.284	3.2	18.5	10.9	31.4	2.1	2.8	11.7	31		3.7	1.6	5.2	0.207		7.1	1.3	8.4	3.2
5	Jimmy Butler	SF	32	MIA	27	896	26.1	0.593	0.117	0.527	6.3	13.2	9.7	29.1	2.8	1.3	9.7	27.1		3.6	1.3	4.9	0.262		5.8	2.4	8.2	2.3
6	Kevin Durant	PF	33	BRK	36	1313	26.1	0.626	0.247	0.35	1.7	19.4	10.9	27.5	1	2.3	11.3	31.2		4.4	1.4	5.9	0.214		6.6	0.7	7.3	3.1
7	Stephen Curry	PG	33	GSW	40	1376	21.9	0.592	0.637	0.236	2	14.5	8.5	29.9	2.1	1.3	13.1	32		2.8	2.5	5.4	0.187		5.9	0.9	6.8	3.1
8	Ja Morant	PG	22	MEM	34	1105	24.5	0.572	0.231	0.329	4	15	9.3	35.8	1.9	1.2	12.9	31.7		2.9	1.2	4	0.175		5.9	0	5.9	2.2
9	Luka Dončić	PG	22	DAL	30	1050	21.7	0.533	0.381	0.296	2.5	25.3	13.8	45.7	1.7	1.2	16	35.9		0.6	1.8	2.4	0.108		4.2	1.6	5.8	2.1
10	Rudy Gobert	C	29	UTA	40	1296	25.5	0.732	0.003	0.863	12.5	36.7	25.1	5.1	1.2	6	14.6	16.9		4.8	2.7	7.5	0.277		3.2	2	5.3	2.4

I welcome debates like this, using only facts and figures, and data.
Feel free to comment, just check the name calling and argue facts, not opeinions.
Bear in mind this is what I do for a living.
I get paid very well for being an IT Operations Analyst for a life insurance company here in the insurance capital of the US
I deal with actuarials, life expectancy numbers.
I analyze and crunch those numbers.
Boring? Maybe to you and others, but it's who I am and it's what I do, and I'm good at it.
I have to be, million dollar life insurance policies ride on my figures.
I'm more than capable of arguing sports analytics.

This chart suggests Jimmy Butler is more valuable than Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry - it like all the little stat sheets you cite is worthless

[stevenash]

Damn.
I have to respond to you.

The first chart with six names refers to just yesterday's game.
It even says so right before the list.

Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.


The final one is season.

[thomorino]

Just to show the enormous difference in strength of schedule between Denver and Philadelphia. Denver has already played Houston and OKC a combined 4 times, neither team even puts an NBA team on the floor.

Just stop.

[mjsuax13]

You cited a metric that has Jimmy Butler head of Kevin Durant, Kevin Durant is in the argument for MVP, Butler isn't in the conversation.

Just stop or this will get embarrassing.

You don't know how to apply math or analytics, you just cite irrelevant data.

You are down -319.2 units in NBA since Bubble 2020. It already is embarrassing, for YOU.

[thomorino]

Damn.
I have to respond to you.

The first chart with six names refers to just yesterday's game.
It even says so right before the list.

Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.


The final one is season.

The chart you citied like all of what you cite is useless. It suggests Jimmy Butler is better and has more of an impact than Steph Curry and Durant. Nobody with a brain and eyes believes that.

To prove my point.

Jimmy Buter is +13000 to win MVP, Durant is +2200, Curry is +170

[thomorino]

You are down -319.2 units in NBA since Bubble 2020. It already is embarrassing, for YOU.

Wrong, those aren't my records, I'm strong across the board. You are unintelligent.

[thomorino]

Damn.
I have to respond to you.

The first chart with six names refers to just yesterday's game.
It even says so right before the list.

Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.


The final one is season.

The chart you cited full season suggests Butler is more valuable than Curry. That's wrong and shows how dumb that formula is.

Curry is +170 to win the MVP, Butler is +13000

Just stop, Debate over.

[thomorino]

This debate is a good example of why people who just rely on stats make no money betting and don't understand sports.

If you are citing a chart or formula that suggests Jimmy Butler is better than Steph Curry and Durant its time for a new chart/formula.

[thomorino]

Embiid is now down to 7-1 at most books, 8-1 at some like draftkings

The books are much slower to adjust their number in lower liquidity markets like this because they don't have much exposure, Embiid should be 2-1 to be the MVP, even at 7-1 and 8-1 there is clear value.

Embiid has looked great on the second night of back to backs this year and he's not missing games anymore. He wants the MVP too, last night he asked Rivers to come back in the game with 7 minutes left even though the team was up almost 30. He wants this award.

[stevenash]

Another triple/double from your MVP Jokic.

Yawn.

[thomorino]

Another triple/double from your MVP Jokic.

Yawn.

Embiid score nearly 15 more points and was more efficient.

Again, Jokic has zero defensive impact, which is why he got his ass kicked by a mediocre offensive team that put up over 120 points.

Embiid is elite defensively, Jokic doesn't even play defense. Just stop.

[stevenash]

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

[mjsuax13]

Nash is the real fukkin deal. No question.

[stevenash]

Nash is the real fukkin deal. No question.

True.
I'm not flawless, just the real f**king deal.

[thomorino]

Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

Wrong, Memphis, a mediocre offensive team, scored 122 and Denver lost. Jokic plays no defense, again embiid is elite defensively.

Your comment and what happened to Embiid in the 4th is embarrassing too. Get a tv.

Embiid was doubled on every single play, that's why he didn't score, teams don't usually double Jokic in the post because he nowhere near the scorer Embiid is.

Embiid is better than everything than Jokic except passing, he's the far better defender. Jokic doesn't even, for the third time, have a defensive impact.whej you type 4 pages debating and then say you won't debate me you just embarrass yourself more.

[stevenash]

Back your points up with facts.
Embid gave the ball to Batum

[thomorino]

Philadelphia had lots of key players out so embiid was doubled on every play down the stretch, he still dropped 40.

If you want to compare Giannis to Embiid that's a conversation. Jokic doesn't come close.

Again, for the forth time no Jokic has no significant impact in the game defensively, Embiid is elite defensively.

Just stop.

Out your little stay sheet down and actually watch a game.

[thomorino]

Back your points up with facts.
Embid gave the ball to Batum

He was doubled on every pkay down the stretch, just stop.

[stevenash]

Disprove what I said here.
Then talk again.
Facts, just data.
Prove to me with facts Embid is the better center.







Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

[stevenash]

Philadelphia had lots of key players out so embiid was doubled on every play down the stretch, he still dropped 40.

If you want to compare Giannis to Embiid that's a conversation. Jokic doesn't come close.

Again, for the forth time no Jokic has no significant impact in the game defensively, Embiid is elite defensively.

Just stop.

Out your little stay sheet down and actually watch a game.

And the Clippers were playing Hatenstein and Amir Coffey and Embid still couldn't beat that.
Facts please.

Disprove these statements.



Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

[stevenash]

Embid is maybe the second or third best center in the league depending on what official NBA metric you want to use.

Good luck in the NFL today.

[thomorino]

Disprove what I said here.
Then talk again.
Facts, just data.
Prove to me with facts Embid is the better center.







Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

The reason Jokic had no turnover is because no one doubles him when he has the ball well Embiid was doubled on every play.

Take Embiid of Philly put Jokic on them, they'd be nowhere near as good. Embiid protects the paint on every possession he's an elite defender. Again, for the fifth time now, Jokic has zero impact defensively.

Memphis just dropped 122 on him, and they aren't even a good offensive team.

Just stop.

[thomorino]

Embid is maybe the second or third best center in the league depending on what official NBA metric you want to use.

Good luck in the NFL today.

Embiid is better, far better than Jokic, at everything but passing.

That's why no one doubles Jokic in the post. Every team in the NBA doubles embiid, especially late in game.

[stevenash]

I mentioned I don't do business with you.
Best of luck tonight.

Disprove this first.





Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

[thomorino]

I mentioned I don't do business with you.
Best of luck tonight.

Disprove this first.





Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

Wrong. Embiid is the far better defender, its not close. Jokic got obliterated by a mediocre offensive team, Memphis. Memphis was scoring on nearly every possession.

Embiid dominates games, Jokic fills the stat sheet up.

Jokic isn't even the best player on his own team in the playoffs, that's Murray, and its not close. Jokic isn't even that good of a scorer when it matters, in the playoffs.

Just stop, Embiid is a top 5 center all-time. Jokic is a good player for his era. Its not close.

[thomorino]

I mentioned I don't do business with you.
Best of luck tonight.

Disprove this first.





Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

And your analytics had Jimmy Butler ranked ahead of Curry and Durant. Your analytics are trash, your arguments are trash.

[stevenash]

Those are NBA analytics, not mine.
Tell them they don't know what they are talking about.
I'm just using their data to disprove your misguided opinion with their facts.

Once again.
DISPROVE THIS.





Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

More efficient?
Really.

Down the stretch Embid was garbage.
Down the stretch Embid was (according to your silly numbers) -6 BMI when Isaah Hartenstein was on the floor.
ISAAH HARTENSTEIN

Question?
How do you know when you're an overrated mediocre defender?

Answer,
When ISAAH HATENSTEIN makes you his personal meat puppet.
He made Embid cry in the fourth quarter.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times.
The best one was late in the fourth, with the game in balance, Embid's pass to Batum.
One problem, Batum plays for the OTHER TEAM

That was a four point swing, and Embid's team lost by one.
That wasn't a MVP type pass.
MVP's don't choke like that.

Efficiency?
Embid turned the ball over five times that led to 11 Clipper points.
Not very effecient.

Know what's effecient?
Jokic has 12 assists and no turnovers.
That's a 12:0 ratio
That's how math works.

!2:0 assist to turnover ratio are Hall of Fame John Stockton numbers.
And Jokic is a seven foot center, not a Hall of Fame point guard.

There's a word that describes that performance.
FLAWLESS
(Perfect comes to mind too)
But let's stick with flawless, without flaw.
Unlike you analytical debating skills, that, has a ton of flaws.

Steals?
That seven foot, flawless center had two swipes last night.
Your guy, close your eyes, what do you see?
That's right? Zero.

How can you tell me with a straight face Embid is elite on defense when in reality he's just mediocre.
Don't take my word for it, take the word of the NBA's metrics, the ones that matter.
They say Jokic is the elite defender, the NBA metrics also say Turner and Gobert (and Jokic) are better defensive centers.

OK, I'll JUST STOP now.
I just used NBA official metrics to prove my point that Jokic is the more efficient center, better defender, and every other superlative you choose to use.

Now, counter my arguments with facts and hard data without using words like dum*shit, or unintelligent.
I just did.

What can you counter with?
That Embid wants the MVP trophy and he begged the coach to leave him in because the MVP means more to him than anything else.
That's what you said the other day.
That's what I call a 'me first, screw the team' player.

What can you counter me with?
That Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team last season in the playoffs and that Murray was?
Oh wait...

This is why I don't debate you anymore.
You don't do any homework, no research, you just ram your opinions down everybody's throats as fact.
And we've exposed this to be true numerous times.
The difference between the two of us is I'm a research hound, you're not.
If you were you'd pause for a minute and verify what you want to say before you say it.

You see pal, an opinion without facts to back it up is just that, an opinion.
You have the right to your opinion, shit, I'd strap a rifle on my back and go to war for that right.
And don't say I wouldn't, I would, I come from military.

Difference is I back my opinions with stone cold data backed by official league numbers.
My opinions are backed with facts.
Your opinions are backed with "Because I said so"
That's one of my problems with you.

Oh, each and every time on those rare occasions that my facts are off, this is what I do.
I say something like "Good catch, my bad, thanks for that, I made a mistake, thanks"
There's a word for that, it's called class.

When you're called out on a mistake you used to respond with "you're a d*mbshit"
Now you use the term "you're unintelligent"
There's a word for that too, it's called CRASS.


Here's the list of last night's top performers as rated by the NBA.
Not you, not me, the NBA
Jokic was for the second game he played in running, the top performer.
He had his 12th triple double, he scored (while going to the free throw line just three time) with over the top efficiency, and handled the ball flawlessly. That's the reason (backed with NBA data) he was yet again the NBA's top performer.
Jokic is so scary good he's on top of these nightly performance lists on a regular basis.
That's why he's the MVP favorite.
Embid is 8 to 1, or whatever the books are offering now for a reason.
They want to suck you in with a price they know they won't have to pay out because there's a very slim chance of that happening.


Oh, not for nothing, I don't use these 'silly charts' as a handicapping tool to bet games, I use them as side by side comparrisons.
That's why the NBA publishes these numbers.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		MEM	L	40:11:00	11	16	0.688	2	4	0.5	2	3	0.667	3	8	11	12	2	1	0	3	26	0	33.2
2	James Harden	BRK	@	SAS	W	37:08:00	13	24	0.542	4	8	0.5	7	7	1	1	9	10	11	0	1	3	3	37	18	33
3	Joel Embiid	PHI		LAC	L	36:32:00	15	25	0.6	3	3	1	7	10	0.7	5	8	13	6	0	1	5	4	40	-6	31.5
4	DeMar DeRozan	CHI	@	MIL	L	38:27:00	9	18	0.5	0	3	0	17	18	0.944	1	5	6	3	0	0	1	0	35	1	28.9
5	Ja Morant	MEM	@	DEN	W	37:26:00	15	26	0.577	2	6	0.333	6	8	0.75	3	3	6	6	2	0	6	1	38	-3	27.8
6	Jusuf Nurkić	POR	@	BOS	W	37:51:00	9	16	0.563	1	1	1	10	13	0.769	6	11	17	6	1	1	5	4	29	20	27
7	Dejounte Murray	SAS		BRK	L	37:11:00	8	20	0.4	1	3	0.333	8	8	1	4	8	12	10	1	0	1	3	25	-15	25.2
8	Rudy Gobert	UTA		DET	W	32:18:00	8	11	0.727	0	0		8	11	0.727	4	10	14	1	0	4	2	4	24	-5	24
9	Fred VanVleet	TOR	@	WAS	W	39:01:00	6	17	0.353	4	11	0.364	5	5	1	1	0	1	12	2	2	1	1	21	8	22.6
10	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	@	CHO	L	33:14:00	10	23	0.435	1	3	0.333	8	9	0.889	2	3	5	6	1	1	1	3	29	-10	22.5

Don't come back at me with your silly "I challenge you to a handicapping contest"
I won't accept, don't do business with you.

Don't come back at me with "you're a coward" I'll just laugh in your face.

Don't comeback at me with "d*mbshit" you'll get banned.


Come back at me with opinions to debate my opinions with facts, not pejorative.
Intelligent facts that you can back up.

Can you do that?

[stevenash]

Just stop, Embiid is a top 5 center all-time. Jokic is a good player for his era. Its not close.

OF ALL TIME !




Chamberlain, Russell, The Admiral, Shaq, Ewing, Willis...
Olajuwon, Moses...
That's before we even get to the best (Jokic) in the game today.

ALL SAY HI




Top five

[Bostongambler]

Did this fool just say he was a top 5 of all time centers?

[stevenash]

Did this fool just say he was a top 5 of all time centers?

I read it, then double checked what I just read, and did this.