Good Value on Joel Embiid to win the MVP at +1600

[thomorino]

Risking 7 Units to win 119

I got this at 30 to 1 yesterday and I am betting this at 16-1 too.

Embiid has had well known issues with injuries and conditioning in the past, but he's a different person and player now.

He has scored over 30 points in 9 straight road games, some of them like the recent game in Miami have been back-to-back games, and his minutes are not being limited on the second night of back-to-back games like in previous years.

He recently got married and has a child, and he's a different person now, he's much more focused and in better shape.

The top 2 favorites for MVP are Curry and Durant, but Durant is likely going to be out at least a month if not more with a knee sprain, and given Durant's injury history and age, Durant isn't going to be playing major minutes in the regular season much more this season.

Curry almost never played on the second night of back-to-backs in the second half of the season last year, and Curry and Durant are players with multiple championships who do not care at all about the MVP. Both are also older players now who will likely be rested a lot since their teams will easily make the playoffs without having to worry about the play in tournament. Giannis also doesn't care about an MVP after winning a title, and he's been rested repeatedly during the season.

Embiid wants to win the MVP, and with Simmons out he's carrying this team.

He is also without question more valuable than Curry and Durant to his team. Embiid is one of the best defensive players in the game, Curry and Durant barely have any defensive impact. Offensively their numbers are comparable. Philadelphia should also finish as one of the top 4 seeds and have a good enough record for Embiid to get MVP consideration. Philadelphia will also likely trade Simmons at some point and get players back that will make Philadelphia a better team and the team will likely finish as I said with a top seed in the East and one of the best records in the NBA.

[thomorino]

The bet is risking 7 units to win 112

the payout is 119 units including the amount wagered

[jjgold]

If this guy ever had a few good players around him Philadelphia would win the title

[johnnyvegas13]

He will never win mvp

not that type of player

[thomorino]

If this guy ever had a few good players around him Philadelphia would win the title

He and Lillard would fit together very well

[thomorino]

He will never win mvp

not that type of player

Dumb statement. He put up huge numbers and fills the stat sheet every night. Injuries are what has kept him from winning the MVP in the past, his play has nothing to do with it.

[johnnyvegas13]

He is not a take over the gm type scorer

sorry not gonna happen

[thomorino]

He is not a take over the gm type scorer

sorry not gonna happen

Wrong, he's not a closer, but he doesn't need to be, Giannis isn't a closer either and he's won multiple MVPs.

Embiid is 5th in the league in scoring and his scoring averages are all going up. He's an elite defender averaging over 27 points a game, he's the MVP and its not close.

[stevenash]

I can't invest in Embid long term only because I don't think his foot is right or will ever be right.
He's missed 12 starts this season

16 to 1 odds though is insane.

If the Sixers make a strong move after the break and Embid stays healthy, who knows?
Right now you have to figure Joker and the Greek the top two.

16 to 1, 20 to 1, 30 to 1, whatever, hard to pass on that.

[Mr KLC]

[jjgold]

He is second most dominant force in NBA next to the big man from Bucks

[gauchojake]

Math guys check in

[stevenash]

Math guys check in

'Sup?

Where you going with this here Jaker?
PER effiency?

It's Joker, Greek, and Embid.

KD is out for about two months, James isn't a force anymore. Gobert doesn't score enough.
Steph may siphon some votes but if you ask me it's a three man race for the moment.

[thomorino]

Embiid drops 50 and doesn't even play the final 5 minutes of the, he is the clear MVP right now, and it's not that close

[nyplayer33]

Mvp ?? Why r odds not lower

[stevenash]

Joker had a better night than Embid.

Joker's your MVP at this point.
Clearly

[thomorino]

Joker had a better night than Embid.

Joker's your MVP at this point.
Clearly

No he didn't, embiid played only 27 minutes

[rm18]

If this guy ever had a few good players around him Philadelphia would win the title

2019 team was the most talented starting 5 in NBA history Embiid, Harris, Butler, Redick, Simmons but they did not have enough floor spacing

[thomorino]

2019 team was the most talented starting 5 in NBA history Embiid, Harris, Butler, Redick, Simmons but they did not have enough floor spacing

That team would not have beaten the Warriors with Durant

[stevenash]

No he didn't, embiid played only 27 minutes

Yeah, so?
Embid doesn't even sniff double digits assists if he played 47 minutes.
Jokic had the better night.

Stop.

[thomorino]

Yeah, so?
Embid doesn't even sniff double digits assists if he played 47 minutes.
Jokic had the better night.

Stop.

The goal of baseball is to put the ball in the basket. When you score 47 points in 27 minutes you don't need assists.

[thomorino]

Yeah, so?
Embid doesn't even sniff double digits assists if he played 47 minutes.
Jokic had the better night.

Stop.

Jokic was +15 when on the court, Embiid was +25.

End of discussion.

[thomorino]

2019 team was the most talented starting 5 in NBA history Embiid, Harris, Butler, Redick, Simmons but they did not have enough floor spacing

Reddick couldn't guard anyone too

[thomorino]

Jokic was +15 when on the court, Embiid was +25.

End of discussion.

Embiid is also an elite defender, Jokoc is barely an average defender, Embiid is the MVP right now and it's not close

[stevenash]

The goal of baseball is to put the ball in the basket. When you score 47 points in 27 minutes you don't need assists.

The goal is also to play defense and pass the ball too.

How many MVP's does Alex English have?
He put the ball in the basket more than any other player in the 80's.
But that's pretty much all he did.

Your logic is flawed, Jokic is clearly the best player in the NBA, he is so much better the all around, complete player than Embid that I can't believe you want to have this debate.

Don't argue me, argue the facts and figures.

I'm not going to get into a name calling contest with you, you're in deep doo as it is.
Just move on, I get it, you like Embid, I like Embid, but to suggest Embid is the better all around player is ludicrous.

Have a good NFL weekend.

[stevenash]

Jokic was +15 when on the court, Embiid was +25.

End of discussion.

Embid was +25 because he had a defense stiff on him all night.
Bye

[thomorino]

The goal is also to play defense and pass the ball too.

How many MVP's does Alex English have?
He put the ball in the basket more than any other player in the 80's.
But that's pretty much all he did.

Your logic is flawed, Jokic is clearly the best player in the NBA, he is so much better the all around, complete player than Embid that I can't believe you want to have this debate.

Don't argue me, argue the facts and figures.

I'm not going to get into a name calling contest with you, you're in deep doo as it is.
Just move on, I get it, you like Embid, I like Embid, but to suggest Embid is the better all around player is ludicrous.

Have a good NFL weekend.

Embid was +25 because he had a defense stiff on him all night.
Bye

Im talking sports, if you can't have a conversation with someone who disagrees with you without wetting your pants than forums aren't for you.

Alex English didn't win anything in the 80s because he didn't have 5 hall of famers in his team like Bird and Magic did.

Embiid is a better player than Jokic. Far better defender and a better offensive player too. Jokic does one thing better than embiid, pass, Embiid is better at everything else.

Jokic has been healthier but no one who knows basketball thinks Jokic is better than Embiid. Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team in the playoffs, that was Murray.

Just stop

[thomorino]

Embid was +25 because he had a defense stiff on him all night.
Bye

And plus minus is not just an individual stat, your logic as usual is flawed.

[Buckandadime]

The goal of baseball is to put the ball in the basket. When you score 47 points in 27 minutes you don't need assists.

I think I have found the problem here..

[thomorino]

I think I have found the problem here..

Its called a typo

[stevenash]

Embiid is also an elite defender, Jokoc is barely an average defender, Embiid is the MVP right now and it's not close

His name is Jokic by the way but I'm not going to play that silly game with you.

Let's break down your arguments, one by one, using only facts and figures only.
Not opinions that you perceive to be facts and figures, but actual data.
And I would like you to respond by checking the name calling and pejoratives at the door.

I'm not sure you know the precise definition of +/- is.
It's actually BMI (commoners refer to it as +/-)
BMI is an NBA metric that estimates the contribution to his team when that player is on the court.
BMI is a sequence of calculations.

Embid's +25 last night is skewed due to the fact when you consider the team on the court when Embid was active were the Orlando Magic.
The Magic, an 8-28 team that's 29th ranked defensively in the NBA.
Pick a defensive metric, any defensive metric, Orlando is next to dead last in just about every defensive category, depending on what metric you want to argue, only OKC and Detroit are worse.
The Magic are a laughing stock, for lack of a better team a JV squad.
Doesn't matter if Orlando's starting defensive team was on the court when Embid was active, or the scrub garbage time unit was active, Helen Keller and Ray Charles both would have come out of that game with a +25 tag.

According to the NBA, not what you or I think, but offically with the NBA says Jokic had the better night last night.
Regardless of 10, 27, or 42 minutes played.
Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		LAC	W	41:16:00	16	25	0.64	3	5	0.6	14	16	0.875	7	7	14	10	3	1	5	4	49	15	48.2
2	Joel Embiid	PHI		ORL	W	27:03:00	17	23	0.739	1	4	0.25	15	17	0.882	1	11	12	2	1	3	2	3	50	24	45.2
3	Trae Young	ATL		MIN	W	35:49:00	10	17	0.588	6	10	0.6	11	11	1	0	5	5	14	1	0	5	1	37	11	36
4	Luka Dončić	DAL		TOR	W	42:16:00	13	24	0.542	4	10	0.4	11	12	0.917	2	12	14	7	1	0	4	2	41	7	35.1
5	Dejounte Murray	SAS		OKC	W	30:15:00	11	20	0.55	1	6	0.167	0	0		3	7	10	14	3	0	1	0	23	19	29.4
6	Ja Morant	MEM	@	MIL	L	39:21:00	12	27	0.444	4	10	0.4	5	5	1	1	7	8	14	0	0	1	3	33	0	29.3

What was your other argument?
Oh yeah, you stated Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team in last season's playoff?
That Murray was?
How is that even possible because Murray wasn't even active in last season's postseason.
Murray didn't play a game, a quarter, or even a minute.
He was inactive.
The only way Murray could have outplayed Jokic in last season's playoffs is if Jokic was Claude Raines (the old time actor who played the role of the Invisible Man)

JUST STOP!

Lastly, I'm going to kill two birds with one stone.
You claim Embid is clearly the better elite defender?
In the official NBA metrics rating, Jokic (as you'll see under the DWS column) is the elite defender.
That's what the NBA says, and they know more than me and you combined.

Now, using the same chart as provided by the NBA, just using facts and figures, who is your MVP.
The operative word in MVP is VALUABLE.


See the VORP column on the right (VORP)
That's an acronym for Value Over Replacement Player.
Jokic is almost twice as valuable to his team as Embid is to his team.
Now you can't tell me VORP is not relevant, it's such a relevant stat that it's going to be adopted as a major factor determining first time free agents future contract salaries in MLB.
And down the road, all major sports.
Now VORP only applies comparing position players to other same position players.
Since Embid and Jokic both are centers, it 100 percent applies.

Read below, who has the better defensive ratings, who has the higher VORP rating?
Who's the better player, thus who is the MVP front runner.

Rk	Player	Pos	Age	Tm	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM▼	VORP
1	Nikola Jokić	C	26	DEN	38	1251	32.9	0.646	0.235	0.303	9.6	36.9	23.5	42.2	2.1	2.2	15.3	32.1		5.2	2.4	7.6	0.291		9.3	4.7	14	5
2	Giannis Antetokounmpo	PF	27	MIL	38	1239	31.1	0.613	0.207	0.578	6	29.5	18	34.9	1.5	4.5	13.1	35.2		4.8	2.3	7.1	0.276		6.8	3.6	10.4	3.9
3	Joel Embiid	C	27	PHI	33	1080	30.6	0.612	0.187	0.594	6.4	29	17.9	23.5	1.6	3.9	11.3	35.6		3.9	1.8	5.7	0.254		6.7	1.9	8.5	2.9
4	LeBron James	SF	37	LAL	33	1211	27	0.616	0.38	0.284	3.2	18.5	10.9	31.4	2.1	2.8	11.7	31		3.7	1.6	5.2	0.207		7.1	1.3	8.4	3.2
5	Jimmy Butler	SF	32	MIA	27	896	26.1	0.593	0.117	0.527	6.3	13.2	9.7	29.1	2.8	1.3	9.7	27.1		3.6	1.3	4.9	0.262		5.8	2.4	8.2	2.3
6	Kevin Durant	PF	33	BRK	36	1313	26.1	0.626	0.247	0.35	1.7	19.4	10.9	27.5	1	2.3	11.3	31.2		4.4	1.4	5.9	0.214		6.6	0.7	7.3	3.1
7	Stephen Curry	PG	33	GSW	40	1376	21.9	0.592	0.637	0.236	2	14.5	8.5	29.9	2.1	1.3	13.1	32		2.8	2.5	5.4	0.187		5.9	0.9	6.8	3.1
8	Ja Morant	PG	22	MEM	34	1105	24.5	0.572	0.231	0.329	4	15	9.3	35.8	1.9	1.2	12.9	31.7		2.9	1.2	4	0.175		5.9	0	5.9	2.2
9	Luka Dončić	PG	22	DAL	30	1050	21.7	0.533	0.381	0.296	2.5	25.3	13.8	45.7	1.7	1.2	16	35.9		0.6	1.8	2.4	0.108		4.2	1.6	5.8	2.1
10	Rudy Gobert	C	29	UTA	40	1296	25.5	0.732	0.003	0.863	12.5	36.7	25.1	5.1	1.2	6	14.6	16.9		4.8	2.7	7.5	0.277		3.2	2	5.3	2.4

I welcome debates like this, using only facts and figures, and data.
Feel free to comment, just check the name calling and argue facts, not opeinions.
Bear in mind this is what I do for a living.
I get paid very well for being an IT Operations Analyst for a life insurance company here in the insurance capital of the US
I deal with actuarials, life expectancy numbers.
I analyze and crunch those numbers.
Boring? Maybe to you and others, but it's who I am and it's what I do, and I'm good at it.
I have to be, million dollar life insurance policies ride on my figures.
I'm more than capable of arguing sports analytics.

[mjsuax13]

The goal of baseball is to put the ball in the basket. When you score 47 points in 27 minutes you don't need assists.

The goal of baseball… bahahahhahaa

[ThanksForTheFade]

The goal of baseball… bahahahhahaa

LMAO. also, rip embiid's acl, ankle, foot, etc after this thread was born

[mjsuax13]

His name is Jokic by the way but I'm not going to play that silly game with you.

Let's break down your arguments, one by one, using only facts and figures only.
Not opinions that you perceive to be facts and figures, but actual data.
And I would like you to respond by checking the name calling and pejoratives at the door.

I'm not sure you know the precise definition of +/- is.
It's actually BMI (commoners refer to it as +/-)
BMI is an NBA metric that estimates the contribution to his team when that player is on the court.
BMI is a sequence of calculations.

Embid's +25 last night is skewed due to the fact when you consider the team on the court when Embid was active were the Orlando Magic.
The Magic, an 8-28 team that's 29th ranked defensively in the NBA.
Pick a defensive metric, any defensive metric, Orlando is next to dead last in just about every defensive category, depending on what metric you want to argue, only OKC and Detroit are worse.
The Magic are a laughing stock, for lack of a better team a JV squad.
Doesn't matter if Orlando's starting defensive team was on the court when Embid was active, or the scrub garbage time unit was active, Helen Keller and Ray Charles both would have come out of that game with a +25 tag.

According to the NBA, not what you or I think, but offically with the NBA says Jokic had the better night last night.
Regardless of 10, 27, or 42 minutes played.
Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		LAC	W	41:16:00	16	25	0.64	3	5	0.6	14	16	0.875	7	7	14	10	3	1	5	4	49	15	48.2
2	Joel Embiid	PHI		ORL	W	27:03:00	17	23	0.739	1	4	0.25	15	17	0.882	1	11	12	2	1	3	2	3	50	24	45.2
3	Trae Young	ATL		MIN	W	35:49:00	10	17	0.588	6	10	0.6	11	11	1	0	5	5	14	1	0	5	1	37	11	36
4	Luka Dončić	DAL		TOR	W	42:16:00	13	24	0.542	4	10	0.4	11	12	0.917	2	12	14	7	1	0	4	2	41	7	35.1
5	Dejounte Murray	SAS		OKC	W	30:15:00	11	20	0.55	1	6	0.167	0	0		3	7	10	14	3	0	1	0	23	19	29.4
6	Ja Morant	MEM	@	MIL	L	39:21:00	12	27	0.444	4	10	0.4	5	5	1	1	7	8	14	0	0	1	3	33	0	29.3

What was your other argument?
Oh yeah, you stated Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team in last season's playoff?
That Murray was?
How is that even possible because Murray wasn't even active in last season's postseason.
Murray didn't play a game, a quarter, or even a minute.
He was inactive.
The only way Murray could have outplayed Jokic in last season's playoffs is if Jokic was Claude Raines (the old time actor who played the role of the Invisible Man)

JUST STOP!

Lastly, I'm going to kill two birds with one stone.
You claim Embid is clearly the better elite defender?
In the official NBA metrics rating, Jokic (as you'll see under the DWS column) is the elite defender.
That's what the NBA says, and they know more than me and you combined.

Now, using the same chart as provided by the NBA, just using facts and figures, who is your MVP.
The operative word in MVP is VALUABLE.


See the VORP column on the right (VORP)
That's an acronym for Value Over Replacement Player.
Jokic is almost twice as valuable to his team as Embid is to his team.
Now you can't tell me VORP is not relevant, it's such a relevant stat that it's going to be adopted as a major factor determining first time free agents future contract salaries in MLB.
And down the road, all major sports.
Now VORP only applies comparing position players to other same position players.
Since Embid and Jokic both are centers, it 100 percent applies.

Read below, who has the better defensive ratings, who has the higher VORP rating?
Who's the better player, thus who is the MVP front runner.

Rk	Player	Pos	Age	Tm	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM▼	VORP
1	Nikola Jokić	C	26	DEN	38	1251	32.9	0.646	0.235	0.303	9.6	36.9	23.5	42.2	2.1	2.2	15.3	32.1		5.2	2.4	7.6	0.291		9.3	4.7	14	5
2	Giannis Antetokounmpo	PF	27	MIL	38	1239	31.1	0.613	0.207	0.578	6	29.5	18	34.9	1.5	4.5	13.1	35.2		4.8	2.3	7.1	0.276		6.8	3.6	10.4	3.9
3	Joel Embiid	C	27	PHI	33	1080	30.6	0.612	0.187	0.594	6.4	29	17.9	23.5	1.6	3.9	11.3	35.6		3.9	1.8	5.7	0.254		6.7	1.9	8.5	2.9
4	LeBron James	SF	37	LAL	33	1211	27	0.616	0.38	0.284	3.2	18.5	10.9	31.4	2.1	2.8	11.7	31		3.7	1.6	5.2	0.207		7.1	1.3	8.4	3.2
5	Jimmy Butler	SF	32	MIA	27	896	26.1	0.593	0.117	0.527	6.3	13.2	9.7	29.1	2.8	1.3	9.7	27.1		3.6	1.3	4.9	0.262		5.8	2.4	8.2	2.3
6	Kevin Durant	PF	33	BRK	36	1313	26.1	0.626	0.247	0.35	1.7	19.4	10.9	27.5	1	2.3	11.3	31.2		4.4	1.4	5.9	0.214		6.6	0.7	7.3	3.1
7	Stephen Curry	PG	33	GSW	40	1376	21.9	0.592	0.637	0.236	2	14.5	8.5	29.9	2.1	1.3	13.1	32		2.8	2.5	5.4	0.187		5.9	0.9	6.8	3.1
8	Ja Morant	PG	22	MEM	34	1105	24.5	0.572	0.231	0.329	4	15	9.3	35.8	1.9	1.2	12.9	31.7		2.9	1.2	4	0.175		5.9	0	5.9	2.2
9	Luka Dončić	PG	22	DAL	30	1050	21.7	0.533	0.381	0.296	2.5	25.3	13.8	45.7	1.7	1.2	16	35.9		0.6	1.8	2.4	0.108		4.2	1.6	5.8	2.1
10	Rudy Gobert	C	29	UTA	40	1296	25.5	0.732	0.003	0.863	12.5	36.7	25.1	5.1	1.2	6	14.6	16.9		4.8	2.7	7.5	0.277		3.2	2	5.3	2.4

I welcome debates like this, using only facts and figures, and data.
Feel free to comment, just check the name calling and argue facts, not opeinions.
Bear in mind this is what I do for a living.
I get paid very well for being an IT Operations Analyst for a life insurance company here in the insurance capital of the US
I deal with actuarials, life expectancy numbers.
I analyze and crunch those numbers.
Boring? Maybe to you and others, but it's who I am and it's what I do, and I'm good at it.
I have to be, million dollar life insurance policies ride on my figures.
I'm more than capable of arguing sports analytics.

<a href="https://imgbb.com/"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/3RgCr4N/B7-FC0622-FB55-487-C-BBCA-C14-B5876023-D.gif" alt="B7-FC0622-FB55-487-C-BBCA-C14-B5876023-D" border="0"></a>

[thomorino]

His name is Jokic by the way but I'm not going to play that silly game with you.

Let's break down your arguments, one by one, using only facts and figures only.
Not opinions that you perceive to be facts and figures, but actual data.
And I would like you to respond by checking the name calling and pejoratives at the door.

I'm not sure you know the precise definition of +/- is.
It's actually BMI (commoners refer to it as +/-)
BMI is an NBA metric that estimates the contribution to his team when that player is on the court.
BMI is a sequence of calculations.

Embid's +25 last night is skewed due to the fact when you consider the team on the court when Embid was active were the Orlando Magic.
The Magic, an 8-28 team that's 29th ranked defensively in the NBA.
Pick a defensive metric, any defensive metric, Orlando is next to dead last in just about every defensive category, depending on what metric you want to argue, only OKC and Detroit are worse.
The Magic are a laughing stock, for lack of a better team a JV squad.
Doesn't matter if Orlando's starting defensive team was on the court when Embid was active, or the scrub garbage time unit was active, Helen Keller and Ray Charles both would have come out of that game with a +25 tag.

According to the NBA, not what you or I think, but offically with the NBA says Jokic had the better night last night.
Regardless of 10, 27, or 42 minutes played.
Here's the top six performances last night according to the NBA.

Rk	Player	Tm		Opp		MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	+/-	GmSc
1	Nikola Jokić	DEN		LAC	W	41:16:00	16	25	0.64	3	5	0.6	14	16	0.875	7	7	14	10	3	1	5	4	49	15	48.2
2	Joel Embiid	PHI		ORL	W	27:03:00	17	23	0.739	1	4	0.25	15	17	0.882	1	11	12	2	1	3	2	3	50	24	45.2
3	Trae Young	ATL		MIN	W	35:49:00	10	17	0.588	6	10	0.6	11	11	1	0	5	5	14	1	0	5	1	37	11	36
4	Luka Dončić	DAL		TOR	W	42:16:00	13	24	0.542	4	10	0.4	11	12	0.917	2	12	14	7	1	0	4	2	41	7	35.1
5	Dejounte Murray	SAS		OKC	W	30:15:00	11	20	0.55	1	6	0.167	0	0		3	7	10	14	3	0	1	0	23	19	29.4
6	Ja Morant	MEM	@	MIL	L	39:21:00	12	27	0.444	4	10	0.4	5	5	1	1	7	8	14	0	0	1	3	33	0	29.3

What was your other argument?
Oh yeah, you stated Jokic wasn't even the best player on his team in last season's playoff?
That Murray was?
How is that even possible because Murray wasn't even active in last season's postseason.
Murray didn't play a game, a quarter, or even a minute.
He was inactive.
The only way Murray could have outplayed Jokic in last season's playoffs is if Jokic was Claude Raines (the old time actor who played the role of the Invisible Man)

JUST STOP!

Lastly, I'm going to kill two birds with one stone.
You claim Embid is clearly the better elite defender?
In the official NBA metrics rating, Jokic (as you'll see under the DWS column) is the elite defender.
That's what the NBA says, and they know more than me and you combined.

Now, using the same chart as provided by the NBA, just using facts and figures, who is your MVP.
The operative word in MVP is VALUABLE.


See the VORP column on the right (VORP)
That's an acronym for Value Over Replacement Player.
Jokic is almost twice as valuable to his team as Embid is to his team.
Now you can't tell me VORP is not relevant, it's such a relevant stat that it's going to be adopted as a major factor determining first time free agents future contract salaries in MLB.
And down the road, all major sports.
Now VORP only applies comparing position players to other same position players.
Since Embid and Jokic both are centers, it 100 percent applies.

Read below, who has the better defensive ratings, who has the higher VORP rating?
Who's the better player, thus who is the MVP front runner.

Rk	Player	Pos	Age	Tm	G	MP	PER	TS%	3PAr	FTr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%		OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48		OBPM	DBPM	BPM▼	VORP
1	Nikola Jokić	C	26	DEN	38	1251	32.9	0.646	0.235	0.303	9.6	36.9	23.5	42.2	2.1	2.2	15.3	32.1		5.2	2.4	7.6	0.291		9.3	4.7	14	5
2	Giannis Antetokounmpo	PF	27	MIL	38	1239	31.1	0.613	0.207	0.578	6	29.5	18	34.9	1.5	4.5	13.1	35.2		4.8	2.3	7.1	0.276		6.8	3.6	10.4	3.9
3	Joel Embiid	C	27	PHI	33	1080	30.6	0.612	0.187	0.594	6.4	29	17.9	23.5	1.6	3.9	11.3	35.6		3.9	1.8	5.7	0.254		6.7	1.9	8.5	2.9
4	LeBron James	SF	37	LAL	33	1211	27	0.616	0.38	0.284	3.2	18.5	10.9	31.4	2.1	2.8	11.7	31		3.7	1.6	5.2	0.207		7.1	1.3	8.4	3.2
5	Jimmy Butler	SF	32	MIA	27	896	26.1	0.593	0.117	0.527	6.3	13.2	9.7	29.1	2.8	1.3	9.7	27.1		3.6	1.3	4.9	0.262		5.8	2.4	8.2	2.3
6	Kevin Durant	PF	33	BRK	36	1313	26.1	0.626	0.247	0.35	1.7	19.4	10.9	27.5	1	2.3	11.3	31.2		4.4	1.4	5.9	0.214		6.6	0.7	7.3	3.1
7	Stephen Curry	PG	33	GSW	40	1376	21.9	0.592	0.637	0.236	2	14.5	8.5	29.9	2.1	1.3	13.1	32		2.8	2.5	5.4	0.187		5.9	0.9	6.8	3.1
8	Ja Morant	PG	22	MEM	34	1105	24.5	0.572	0.231	0.329	4	15	9.3	35.8	1.9	1.2	12.9	31.7		2.9	1.2	4	0.175		5.9	0	5.9	2.2
9	Luka Dončić	PG	22	DAL	30	1050	21.7	0.533	0.381	0.296	2.5	25.3	13.8	45.7	1.7	1.2	16	35.9		0.6	1.8	2.4	0.108		4.2	1.6	5.8	2.1
10	Rudy Gobert	C	29	UTA	40	1296	25.5	0.732	0.003	0.863	12.5	36.7	25.1	5.1	1.2	6	14.6	16.9		4.8	2.7	7.5	0.277		3.2	2	5.3	2.4

I welcome debates like this, using only facts and figures, and data.
Feel free to comment, just check the name calling and argue facts, not opeinions.
Bear in mind this is what I do for a living.
I get paid very well for being an IT Operations Analyst for a life insurance company here in the insurance capital of the US
I deal with actuarials, life expectancy numbers.
I analyze and crunch those numbers.
Boring? Maybe to you and others, but it's who I am and it's what I do, and I'm good at it.
I have to be, million dollar life insurance policies ride on my figures.
I'm more than capable of arguing sports analytics.

PER doesn't measure defense in any accurate or complete way, Embiid if the far better defender.

The offensive numbers you cite are wrong and misleading too, Embiid is the much better offensive player, but he dealt with injuries early in the year he's healthy now.

The Eastern conference is also much stronger and deeper than the West so your numbers, once again, fail, because they don't account for strength of schedule.

Numbers people like you can easily be replaced by people in India making 20 dollars a day. All you do is put data in - you don't know how to interpret anything, which is why you are a zero in general, including as a sports bettor.

Let's go heads up 100 picks 2 units each, loser leaves the forum forever, you never will, you'd get destroyed and you know it.