ESPN NBA MVP Straw Poll 3.0 Results

[shadymcgrady]

Not for nothing, I enjoy your posts, you bring something to the table 98 percent of the time.
Having said that.

I'm not triggered, just don't see all this 'greatness' in Embid for reasons I've explained 100 times over.
Nothing on a faceless, nameless sports forum/message board will ever trigger me.

Runaway out of control inflation that cuts into my discretionary income may trigger me, real life stuff like that, but nameless, faceless parasites (not you) don't trigger me.
Hardly, not even close.

I think an argument could be made every yr for who should've won MVP, sometimes it's the majority best player and sometimes it's not.

Embiid fits the mold for an MVP win in terms of it's his time/turn even if he isn't overwhelmingly deserving much like LeBron a few times early in his career when Kobe, dirk or Duncan were far superior as players and winners at that point in their respective careers.

Does that mean he's deserving? No but it's how the NBA has gamed the system for decades to generate interest and speculation amongst their fanbase. I remember when Jason Kidd took a 20 win nets team to the best record in the league with a bunch of nobody's his first yr with nets and they gave it to Shaq. The very next yr he did it again and they gave it Duncan. Jokic is similar in that context and given that he won it last yr it makes it even more unlikely from a political POV

[IBetYou]

He's great because he's an elite scorer and an elite defender. THat's enough! Very few players at any position can claim these traits.

Number of MVPs they have doesn't matter. Jokic is better, but can only 1 player in the league be great? Number of championships also bogus criteria -basketball is a team game.

[IBetYou]

What's worse, a talking head journalist on network television that never laced up or sports bettor on a forum with equal experience?

Well it depends whether you're talking about playing basketball or analysing it. I could have been born a cripple for all you know... would that make me exempt from making a good judgement? Strange logic.

[shadymcgrady]

Playoff run doesn't necessarily always spell voting points for an MVP candidate either. Dirk won it the yr the mavs got bounced as a 1 seed to the 8 seeded Baron Davis/don Nelson led golden State warriors. (What sweet revenge for Donnie Sr on mark Cuban)

Although to step back and widen the gaze, dirk got robbed the yr prior with the MVP when Nash surprisingly got it on the end of a b2b. Which kind of tells you the nba is political with public image or at least was when stern was around. Kidd did with the nets exactly what Nash did with the sun's and didn't get a single MVP, Nash gets back to back for doing the exact same thing

[IBetYou]

Not sure that quesiton makes sense either way actually. Bloody strange guy lol

[stevenash]

He's great because he's an elite scorer and an elite defender. THat's enough! Very few players at any position can claim these traits.

Number of MVPs they have doesn't matter. Jokic is better, but can only 1 player in the league be great? Number of championships also bogus criteria -basketball is a team game.

Talk to me about greatness and Embid when he has 900 + games played like Durant, or 1400 games + like James.
You can't label anybody great with what? 300 + games played.

It took Mike Trout nearly 1000 games played to be labeled great, and he's the greatest player MLB has seen in half a century, but that's another story for another day.

Is Embid great? Not yet.
Will he achieve greatness, probably, but to call him (not you) a top five center of all time because he can score 25 a game (lifetime) and play some defense after 300 plus career games is just asinine.

[stevenash]

Playoff run doesn't necessarily always spell voting points for an MVP candidate either. Dirk won it the yr the mavs got bounced as a 1 seed to the 8 seeded Baron Davis/don Nelson led golden State warriors. (What sweet revenge for Donnie Sr on mark Cuban)

Although to step back and widen the gaze, dirk got robbed the yr prior with the MVP when Nash surprisingly got it on the end of a b2b. Which kind of tells you the nba is political with public image or at least was when stern was around. Kidd did with the nets exactly what Nash did with the sun's and didn't get a single MVP, Nash gets back to back for doing the exact same thing

I'm the biggest Nash fan in the world and even I don't get that second MVP.

The operative word in MVP is valuable.
Who is more valuable to their team, Embid to Philly, or Jokic to Denver?

The answer lies in the WORP player metric.
Or win share metric if you will.
I broke this down earlier this year, Jokic when in the lineup is worth over eight more wins a season.
No other player comes even close.

That's value.

[stevenash]

Here's you win share leaders.

https://www.basketball-reference.com...nced_stats::ws

Here's your value metric.


https://www.basketball-reference.com...nced_stats::ws

I'll see your boys later, my dogs need a walk or there's going to be trouble on my living room floor.

[Wrongside]

Has Morino, at least, admitted why he feels so confident? For a guy who’s pretty conservative, he sure feels okay taking comfort in the fact that ‘Affirmative Action’ will be bringing him home the $. It’s sad. I thought he was a boy of conviction.

[stevenash]

Has Morino, at least, admitted why he feels so confident? For a guy who’s pretty conservative, he sure feels okay taking comfort in the fact that ‘Affirmative Action’ will be bringing him home the $. It’s sad. I thought he was a boy of conviction.

It's best not to think about what goes on inside that head.
He lives on Planet Morino.

[thomorino]

Jokic has a higher Offensive plus/minus value.
Jokic has a higher Defensive plus/minus value.
Jokic has a higher player efficiency rating.
Jokic has a higher real plus minus wins.

Embiid doesn't rate higher at anything. If anyone had to pick a player to play, with 99% would pick Jokic over Embiid.

Embiid plays in the far tougher conference and teams actually play hard against Philadelphia. If Embiid played in the West he's crap on every Jokic number 10 times over.

Just stop.

[IBetYou]

Talk to me about greatness and Embid when he has 900 + games played like Durant, or 1400 games + like James.
You can't label anybody great with what? 300 + games played.

It took Mike Trout nearly 1000 games played to be labeled great, and he's the greatest player MLB has seen in half a century, but that's another story for another day.

Is Embid great? Not yet.
Will he achieve greatness, probably, but to call him (not you) a top five center of all time because he can score 25 a game (lifetime) and play some defense after 300 plus career games is just asinine.

If a player is great i call them great regardless of how many games they've played. It's not that complicated. If you want to apply stupid rules that's up to you.

[bryant81]

Embiid is also -200 and -175 at almost every major book.

Just stop.

How about now?

[thomorino]

How about now?

Embiid is still the favorite at most books

[stevenash]

How about now?

I'm not that pathological lying parasite Morino, and thank God for that, right?
But right now, looks like Jokic is -140.
Shame, he could have had it at +105 two days ago, or like me, could have had Jokic at +300 six weeks ago.
And you just know that pathological liar will call me out on that +300 bet, to which I'll tell him, "I posted it in your very own thread you created six weeks ago you nitwit, go back and check if you want"





[IMG][/IMG]

[vitterd]

This is a crime. Embiid dominated Jokic head to head to the point they benched Jokic. This is the nba hating morey and harden….no other reason. Embiid was by far the mvp this year. A total joke

[stevenash]

This is a crime. Embiid dominated Jokic head to head to the point they benched Jokic. This is the nba hating morey and harden….no other reason. Embiid was by far the mvp this year. A total joke

I guess your TV went out in the fourth quarter the last time Jokic met Embid.
Allow me to refresh your memory, Embid hit the floor so hard he saw little birdies circling around his head.

What's up fella, haven't seen you around these parts in awhile.

[CJ]

Real MVPs don't get blocked at the rim with the game on the line. Embiid is a bum, not a total bum, but still a bum. He'll etch his name alongside players like Patrick Ewing by the time his career is over. Great stats, some big seasons, but 0 rings. Only main difference is Ewing wasn't a softass bitch like Embiid. Never saw Ewing crying after losing a series! I'm sure we'll get to see the waterworks again this May.

[stevenash]

Real MVPs don't get blocked at the rim with the game on the line. Embiid is a bum, not a total bum, but still a bum. He'll etch his name alongside players like Patrick Ewing by the time his career is over. Great stats, some big seasons, but 0 rings. Only main difference is Ewing wasn't a softass bitch like Embiid. Never saw Ewing crying after losing a series! I'm sure we'll get to see the waterworks again this May.

Giannis with the man's man block.
MVP's being MVP's I guess.

Made Embid cry.

[las8]

Embiid plays in the far tougher conference and teams actually play hard against Philadelphia. If Embiid played in the West he's crap on every Jokic number 10 times over.

Just stop.

buried.

This is a crime. Embiid dominated Jokic head to head to the point they benched Jokic. This is the nba hating morey and harden….no other reason. Embiid was by far the mvp this year. A total joke

I tired sending you a message.... You can go pro for free right now. I am not hopeful that points will have value in the future but if they do it's worth signing up while you can.

[stevenash]

Embiid plays in the far tougher conference and teams actually play hard against Philadelphia. If Embiid played in the West he's crap on every Jokic number 10 times over.

Just stop.

[CJ]

LMAO, I missed that "tougher conference" remark, how dumb can you be. I suppose that explains why:

1. The Suns are 25-5 vs the East
2. No East team has won 50 games still, let alone 60 like Phoenix
3. The West has won more total games vs the East this year, despite Texas' 32-51 contribution
4. Even the fukking Lakers are 15-15 vs the East

But yes, in Moron-o-land, the East is better.

Oh and don't give me any "well so and so in the East was injured" crap, because the Clippers played without George most of the season and Diva Leonard all year, while the Nuggets haven't had Murray, Lillard has been AWOL since Portland opted to tank, no Zion and on and on.

[stevenash]

LMAO, I missed that "tougher conference" remark, how dumb can you be. I suppose that explains why:

1. The Suns are 25-5 vs the East
2. No East team has won 50 games still, let alone 60 like Phoenix
3. The West has won more total games vs the East this year, despite Texas' 32-51 contribution
4. Even the fukking Lakers are 15-15 vs the East

But yes, in Moron-o-land, the East is better.

Oh and don't give me any "well so and so in the East was injured" crap, because the Clippers played without George most of the season and Diva Leonard all year, while the Nuggets haven't had Murray, Lillard has been AWOL since Portland opted to tank, no Zion and on and on.

Word of advice.
Don't try.

I tried to explain to the nitwit for two weeks how the Strngth of Schedule works.
I even posted the actual formula the leagues use to calculate SoS.
It's like explaining how nuclear reactors work to a four year old.

The blockhead is hell bent on SoS is based on what conference you play in.
I told him 1000 times it's what teams you have played, not what conference you play in.
I tried to explain to him why the two teams with the toughest SoS to date both play in the Pacific Division in the West Conference.
His reaction? It was like lollipops and unicorns were circling around that brain of mush of his.

Don't try.
He's not only a pathological liar, he's hypocritical.
He doesn't understand value, no idea what variance mean, his words, he thought variance is an event, like a Kings coronation or something.

Watch what's going to happen next. if I'm wrong I'll buy you a steak dinner.
He's going to argue with you for three pages on how he's right and everybody else is wrong.
Ken Pom is wrong, Sagarin is wrong, all those with multiple advanced MIT math degrees are wrong, professional media analysts, former pro's, each and everyone is wrong, all except our pal Morino.

It's like he lives to be wrong, he's both a masochist and a sociopath.
It's like he lives for the pain.

The next time he's correct about anything will be the first time.

OK, I'm done.
Unless he decides to come at me again unprovoked, then I'll reduce him to tears.
Again,

[d2bets]

He won't be MVP this season, but Giannis is the best player for sure. If I'm starting a team right now I'm definitely taking him over Jokic and definitely over Embiid. Not even close really.

[stevenash]

He won't be MVP this season, but Giannis is the best player for sure. If I'm starting a team right now I'm definitely taking him over Jokic and definitely over Embiid. Not even close really.

You know D2, just an hour ago I said to myself it wouldn't surprise me if the MVP voting winds up 1) Giannis 2) Jokic 3) everyone else.
Giannis crushed Embid and his buddies last night too.

[CJ]

He won't be MVP this season, but Giannis is the best player for sure. If I'm starting a team right now I'm definitely taking him over Jokic and definitely over Embiid. Not even close really.

Agree with all this; however, the award doesn't always go to the best player in the league. Otherwise Jordan would've won more than 5, Kareem more than 6, Shaq more than just one and Steve Nash (as much as I was a fan) would have zero.

I digress, Giannis is to that special point in his career where he's realized winning championships is more important than individual accolades and regular season wins. Giannis and the Bucks do enough to get a higher seed, but they're not burning themselves out chasing regular season wins like they did in 2018/19 and 2019/20. I like their chances to repeat, especially if Phoenix stumbles before the finals.

[thomorino]

I'm not that pathological lying parasite Morino, and thank God for that, right?
But right now, looks like Jokic is -140.
Shame, he could have had it at +105 two days ago, or like me, could have had Jokic at +300 six weeks ago.
And you just know that pathological liar will call me out on that +300 bet, to which I'll tell him, "I posted it in your very own thread you created six weeks ago you nitwit, go back and check if you want"





[IMG][/IMG]

buried.




I tired sending you a message.... You can go pro for free right now. I am not hopeful that points will have value in the future but if they do it's worth signing up while you can.

LMAO, I missed that "tougher conference" remark, how dumb can you be. I suppose that explains why:

1. The Suns are 25-5 vs the East
2. No East team has won 50 games still, let alone 60 like Phoenix
3. The West has won more total games vs the East this year, despite Texas' 32-51 contribution
4. Even the fukking Lakers are 15-15 vs the East

But yes, in Moron-o-land, the East is better.

Oh and don't give me any "well so and so in the East was injured" crap, because the Clippers played without George most of the season and Diva Leonard all year, while the Nuggets haven't had Murray, Lillard has been AWOL since Portland opted to tank, no Zion and on and on.

Word of advice.
Don't try.

I tried to explain to the nitwit for two weeks how the Strngth of Schedule works.
I even posted the actual formula the leagues use to calculate SoS.
It's like explaining how nuclear reactors work to a four year old.

The blockhead is hell bent on SoS is based on what conference you play in.
I told him 1000 times it's what teams you have played, not what conference you play in.
I tried to explain to him why the two teams with the toughest SoS to date both play in the Pacific Division in the West Conference.
His reaction? It was like lollipops and unicorns were circling around that brain of mush of his.

Don't try.
He's not only a pathological liar, he's hypocritical.
He doesn't understand value, no idea what variance mean, his words, he thought variance is an event, like a Kings coronation or something.

Watch what's going to happen next. if I'm wrong I'll buy you a steak dinner.
He's going to argue with you for three pages on how he's right and everybody else is wrong.
Ken Pom is wrong, Sagarin is wrong, all those with multiple advanced MIT math degrees are wrong, professional media analysts, former pro's, each and everyone is wrong, all except our pal Morino.

It's like he lives to be wrong, he's both a masochist and a sociopath.
It's like he lives for the pain.

The next time he's correct about anything will be the first time.

OK, I'm done.
Unless he decides to come at me again unprovoked, then I'll reduce him to tears.
Again,

4 of the 5 top teams right now are in the East.

4 of the 5.

The 2 seed in the West is Memphis, most of the top teams in the East would sweep them.

Just stop.

Most books have now moved the bet to a toss up since when I posted earlier today - Nash did what he usually does which is change the question since he lost the argument.

Just looking at one book such as fanduel means nothing, because markets like the NBA MVP market are low liquidity markets and you will frequently see very different lines at different books

[thomorino]

I guess your TV went out in the fourth quarter the last time Jokic met Embid.
Allow me to refresh your memory, Embid hit the floor so hard he saw little birdies circling around his head.

What's up fella, haven't seen you around these parts in awhile.

Embiid completely dominated Jokic all game, Embiid dominated Jokic in the 4th quarter as well.

Bones Heyland couldn't miss a shot the first 6 minutes of the 4th when Jokic was on the bench, and that's when Denver made their comeback.

Embiid was the far better player, as he is and has been all year.

Embiid was also on the second night of a back to back.

[stevenash]

Agree with all this; however, the award doesn't always go to the best player in the league. Otherwise Jordan would've won more than 5, Kareem more than 6, Shaq more than just one and Steve Nash (as much as I was a fan) would have zero.

I digress, Giannis is to that special point in his career where he's realized winning championships is more important than individual accolades and regular season wins. Giannis and the Bucks do enough to get a higher seed, but they're not burning themselves out chasing regular season wins like they did in 2018/19 and 2019/20. I like their chances to repeat, especially if Phoenix stumbles before the finals.

And conversely Embid wants the MVP award above anything else.
Championship? Don't care, I want the MVP.
And you can just tell he's slurping off Doc for every minute he can get on the floor to inflate his numbers.
Won't work, he's not winning again this year.

[thomorino]

Nuggets

Je. GreenPF	21	3-3	0-0	0-0	1	3	4	1	1	0	2	2	-8	6
A. GordonPF	20	3-6	1-3	0-0	1	2	3	2	0	1	1	1	-13	7
W. BartonSF	32	7-14	3-6	3-4	1	2	3	2	0	0	1	2	-7	20
N. JokicC	34	8-16	1-3	5-7	1	12	13	8	2	2	5	1	-9	22

T. HarrisPF	37	4-9	2-4	0-2	1	6	7	1	1	0	1	1	+2	10
J. EmbiidC	36	11-20	3-3	9-10	3	6	9	4	1	2	5	5	+2	34

Embiid dominated Jokic in every way.

Total points

Efficiency

Plus and Minus

Just stop.

[thomorino]

And conversely Embid wants the MVP award above anything else.
Championship? Don't care, I want the MVP.
And you can just tell he's slurping off Doc for every minute he can get on the floor to inflate his numbers.
Won't work, he's not winning again this year.

Every player who has never won the MVP wants to win it - just stop, another horrible take.

[IBetYou]

Embiid has matured a fair bit in recent years, seemingly beginning with the moment he got humbled by the Raptors and famously cried upon Gasol's shoulder. How anyone can put the FREAK above him is beyond me. He's just a more natural basketball player across the board, and bigger. Swap Anteto' for Embiid and the Bucks are favourites to win the 'ship imo.

[stevenash]

Embiid has matured a fair bit in recent years, seemingly beginning with the moment he got humbled by the Raptors and famously cried upon Gasol's shoulder. How anyone can put the FREAK above him is beyond me. He's just a more natural basketball player across the board, and bigger. Swap Anteto' for Embiid and the Bucks are favourites to win the 'ship imo.

Who leads the NBA is 2H scoring this year with a 16.0 2H average?

Spoiler alert, it's not Embid.

[IBetYou]

Hedo Turkoglu led the league in 4th quarter scoring one year. He was v.good but he wasn't the best player in the league.

[IBetYou]

I think the Gasol thing had a profound impact on him. Felt compassion at his most vulnerable point and was very appreciative of it after, calling him a class act. You don't see Embiid trash talk so much these days. Opponents try to rile him with a hard foul or a taunt and he lets it go. Leadership.