This injury for Trout, Angels are 0-4 and outscored 34-17. 5 games out of the WC.
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Trout is a great player but not a legend. He's never ever done anything in the postseason in his whole career. His stats are slipping too. Not a leader. Injury prone. He'll go in the hall of fame but unless he turns his career around, he won't go down as one of the greatest players ever. Viewers don't give a shit about worthless regular season stats. They don't mean anything at all. The only thing that matters in sports is winning.
Viewers remember postseason heroes, like bumgarner and posey, and even someone like david freese. If Trout doesn't produce those moments, he will surely be forgotten 40 yrs from now. Time is ticking for him.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
The best *huge* long term contract in the past 25 years was the Mussina contract the NY Yankees gave him.
Year W L ERA GS IP H BB WHIP SO SO9 H9 BB9 SO/W 2001-2008 123 72 3.88 248 1553 1565 318 1.213 1278 7.4 9.1 1.8 4.02 Average 15 9 31 194 196 40 160 per 162 games 17 10 34 212 214 44 175 Comment -
Ken Griffey Jr.
Frank Thomas
Ernie Banks
Ron Santo
Never played in a World Series
Plenty more.Comment -
Jr is a good modern comp, and Trout has better annual numbers across the board, although it's unlikely he'll reach his longevity.
Mike Trout has 3 MVP's. That tied for 2nd in MLB history, trailing only Bonds.
I was only responding to the guy calling him a bust. I mean, that's laughable.Comment -
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Angels and Dodgers had Yesterday off?Comment -
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Not a valid argument.
Trout's Angels have been to the playoffs once in ten years.
You're basing Trout's legacy on 12 career postseason at bats against his entire body of work, which consists of 5400 career at bats.
Invalid argument dude.
Wrong again.
Trout is the very definition of the term 'leading by example'
He plays centerfield as if the teams life depends on it.
Go to YouTube, check out the multiple catches he made in center crashing into walls.
Bones be damned, he puts his body on the line on every defensive effort.
That's quietly saying to the team, I lead by example.
There's a reason why Trout was defensive player of the year in 2012.
Prone?
Really?
He played virtually every game his first eight full seasons.
Then he missed some time in 2019 with a hurt foot, and played on it too.
After Covid he got hit on the nad and missed some time as well.
Last season if he doesn't get hit on the hand he hits 50 + HR's
He had 40 with 43 games left.
That's his injury history.
He's played in 1500 games in eleven full seasons.
2020 was not a full season.
1500 games in eleven full season, do the math.
Injury prone?
Really?
I'm tired of repeating myself.
The only pitching staffs worse than what the Angels have had on a consistent basis are the Rockies, and maybe a couple others.
That's it.
Pitching almost always wins, usually does, and usually will.
Moreno fails to listen to anybody with a working baseball brain who tells him he needs to address the pitching first.
That's where rings are won, pitching, not hitting.
The 2014 Angels, the only Trout era LA team that went to the post season they got swept by KC Royals.
You know who hit their pitching from the Angels?
Nobody, with the possible exception of Aybar who had four singles and a double in three games, and Kole Calhoun who had five singles in three games.
You know who the front three starters were for the Angels in that KC Royals series.
Matt Shoemaker, Jered Weaver, and CJ Wilson.
Yeah, a pitching staff dreams are made of.
CJ Wilson in game three was so bad that Royals lineup made him his personal meat puppet.
Wilson got lit up like a Christmas tree, never got out of the first inning.
Too bad Trout can't pitch.
LA Angels have had one, just one CY Young award winner since the DH era started 50 years ago.
Bartolo Colon, that's all.
Epic, memorable teams win with Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz.
Epic, memorable teams win with Pedro and Schilling, and Randy Johnson.
Epic, memorable teams win with Clemens and Pettite, and Cone, and Mo...
Epic, memorable teams don't win with Weaver, and Matt Shoemaker, and the immortal CJ Wilson.
Tell me again please how good offenses beat good pitching?
If offensive top heavy teams won, please tell me how many rings those Cooper, Yount, and Molitor Brewers have?
The Rockies had one of the bad ass lineups for almost a decade too, how many rings does have.
Blackmon, Arenado, Helton, Larry Walker, Bichette... how many rings?
Twins lineups were stacked for years on end.
How many titles there?
What's the common thread there?
Rockies, Brewers, Twins, Angels all had piss poor pitching.
Tout doesn't pitch, don't blame him, blame the owners.
Pitching wins, usually has, and usually will.
Your turn Goater, you're up.Comment -
Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
That body of work is worthless because it hasn't resulted in winning. I'll put it to you this way. If I play bball on a pickup court, but go 1-12 over 13 games, even if I score the most points on the court, most assists, whatever, why does it matter? I lost. My team lost.
As for trout being a leader, we can agree to disagree. Trout is not a leader in my eyes, in the same way Aaron Rodgers is not a leader. Guys who are shelled up and quiet aren't great leaders. We both played sports at a high competitive level, and no one follows the guy who only leads by example. They follow the guys who give the speeches and demand stuff from their teammates. Those are the guys who have a way of telling their teammates that you have to find a way to win. Trout is not that, and that's a fact. So you can come to his defense all you want, but you know the truth.
And last I checked, Trout has played with the best player in baseball for the past few years, and he's done absolutely nothing with that either. Hop on his dick all you want, but Trout will be forgotten many years from now if he doesn't learn to lead and turn into a winner. And I hope he does, cause I like the guy.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Ernie Banks never made the playoffs. He sucked too, right? Jr. made it 3 times in 22 seasons and never made the World Series. Bum. More than any other sports, baseball is a team game. You can be the best player every year and still miss the playoffs. Can't fault the best player for that. Ohtani is now 6 seasons and counting without a playoff appearance. Does he suck yet too? Not gonna stop some team from giving him the highest contract ever. I just can't subscribe to your "baseball stats are meaningless without playoffs" theory. I'll accept that for an NBA player. Maybe even an NFL QB, maybe to an extent. But not a single hitter. One hitter can only do so much.Comment -
Trout would have been drafted by the Yankees in 2009 but New York had to ship that pick to Anaheim as compensation for signing Mark Teixeira.
The Angels snapped up Trout in a New York minute.
The Yankees were up next with a compensation pick of their own.
New York drafted Gerrit Cole out of HS in 2008, they couldn't sign him, Cole's agent wanted beau coup money for a HS kid, opted out, and went to UCLA instead.
Would we be having this conversation if Trout played in New York, you know a team with a real pitching staff with a real chance of a playoff berth every year, instead of a clown pro baseball team that sniffs a post season once a decade.Comment -
When Goat talks NBA, I pay attention.
Goat doesn't understand MLB.
You can win with two big sticks if you have a top tier pitching staff.
You can't win without pitching, period.
End of story.
Angels have always had shit for pitching, without that, Ohtani and Trout can mash 80 HR's each, every season and maybe wind up .500
McGwire and Canseco and the A's were supposed to have their way with the Reds.
How'd that work out?
Oakland ran into all that pitching, Tom Browning, and Jose Rijo, and the Nasty Boys bullpen of Norm Charlton, Rob Dibble, and Randy Myers.
With all of that lumber, and shitty pitching, Oakland scored eight runs in four games in a Reds sweep.
I remember that well.
Cincy was +260 and I was on that like a pit bull on a poodle.
Pitching wins, usually does, and usually will.
Goater doesn't understand that.Comment -
Actually baseball is both a hybrid of an individual sport/team sport.
What the GM tries to do is assemble a roster with like minded players
For example, KC won in 2014 and 2105 with a group that could put the ball in play all day but didn't have prolific power hitters.
They added some speed (Lorenzo Cain) from Milwaukee, added that to the kids from Omaha (Gordon, Hosmer, Sal Perez, Moose)
Tailor your team with the individual talent that you have is the point I'm trying to make here.Comment -
Sure, but each player is just 1 of 25. Maybe 1 of 17 or 18 key players. In basketball, it's all about the star. Trout can only bat one out of 9 and even the best fail 65-70% of the time. And you are going nowhere without pitching. Star basketball player can affect virtually every play.Comment -
And if Tracy McGrady played with Shaq, he'd have 3 rings too maybe. If Jordan never played with Pippen, would he be considered the goat? No. I never said Trout sucks. I said he's a great player. But he's not a legendary player. Because legends are born in the postseason, whether you want to admit it or not. In all sports. Jamal Murray was rated an 84 in the updated 2k ratings this year, behind Tyrese Halliburton at 89. Halliburton might have the reg season numbers, but if you replaced him with Murray, 2k is basically saying it'd be an easy ring for denver based on those ratings, and the answer is no. Halliburton is nothing compared to Jamal Murray. I don't care what his stats or highly analytical ratings say. That's a fact.
2 years ago Trout and Ohtani were considered the best 2 baseball players in the world. you're telling me the top 2 players on one team can't make the postseason even? Give me a fricken break bro. All I hear here are excuses after excuses. Your body of work in any sport means nothing if you don't win. I don't care what stats a baseball guru pulls out of their ass. If you don't win or AT LEAST compete to win, then what's the point of even playing the game? Trout isn't a cold-hearted killer in the same way some other guys are.
And yeah, LAA does miss the playoffs cause he's quiet. He's not a vocal leader, and everyone knows that they want their best player to be a Jordan, or a Ray Lewis, or a Brady, or a guy like that who leads not just through example, but with words too. Listen to some of the speeches those guys have given their teammates in the locker room, and tell me that wouldn't fire you up and make you play beyond your level if you were a mediocre player. I know what I'm talking about cause I've been in those locker rooms with guys like that.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
The only time you can make a substantial argument that a certain athlete cannot be ranked at the top of his sport in any given era when he's never won a championship or gold medal etc, is when its a sport like tennis or golf (let's not argue whether golf is a sport or not for now) or swimming or cycling etc.
Its pretty much impossible to say any player on a team sport is the greatest of all time. I have done it in the past but I have evolved on the subject and have accepted the fact that there are too many other factors you must take into consideration in order to declare any one player to be the best ever. If that offends Tom Brady fans, so be it. Free agency. Coaches. Teammates. Goalies. RB's. WR's. Defense. Injuries.
There are hockey fans who don't think Gretzky is the greatest to ever play the game. Some consider Orr to be the greatest. Gretzky played 8 seasons with LA and never won the cup.
Dan Marino. Come on. He literally changed the QB position and the offensive game of the NFL. It was never the same after he came into the league. His team made the super bowl right away and never made it back there again.
Last edited by DwightShrute; 07-11-23, 04:47 PM.Comment -
You're sitting here telling me that the best two players in the world on one team can't make the palyoffs? And one of those guys is one of the best pitchers and hitters in the game? That's gotta be the most massive failure in MLB history.
I didn't even say they have to win a ring. Don't give me all that bs about pitching. When everyone on this website told me that the Mets would beat the Royals in the world series because of their "superstar pitching", I said no way they're gonna win when Royals have a guy like Gordon batting at number 8 in the lineup, and the Mets had some bum at 8 in their lineup. Royals had guys who aren't all power hitters, but know how to get on base, one after another. That's why Yankees can't win, cause their lineup is crap, a bunch of guys who swing for the fences. It's not hard. I know nothing about baseball compared to you and I can easily build a roster that goes to the playoffs in my sleep.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment -
Dude, what can you tell me about the KC Royals I don't know about?
They're my favorite team, I saw virtually every inning of 2014 and 2015.
Shit, I was watching Sal Perez, Alex Gordon, Hosmer, all of them come up in a span of two years from AAA Omaha.
I can tell you how GM Dayton Moore built that team from scratch, starting with the core four from Omaha, the same way Cashman and Gene Michael built up the core four from Columbus.
I can tell you how Dayton Moore flipped Jake Odorizzi for James Shields and Wade Davis, and how Moore flipped Greinke for Escobar and Lorenzo Cain.
That's how you get a world class closer, a WS winning CF and SS to go along with Hosmer, Moose, Sal Perez...
Oh, how big was that Johnny Cueto two hit shutout Moore got from the Reds for pretty much nothing.
Remember that bow hard Benny Big Nuts?
Let's say we really didn't like each other that much.
Oh no we didn't.
He had ten dimes on the Mets, I only had two diness on the Royals.
Long story short, which I am not capable of doing, I reduced that jack ass to tears.
Don't tell me about the KC Royals.
Now don't get me wrong Goater, I love when you talk hoops, you know the NBA, and I love your passion.
But baseball... That's my thing.Comment -
I didn't ask Trout to make the WS bro. I asked him and Otanhi to make the playoffs. It's just amazing to me that someone who knows as much baseball as you can honestly look at the last 6 years they've had together -- ZERO playoff appearances, ZERO -- and not call that a failure. If we can't be unbiased, then what are we doing here? If Crosby and Malkin in their primes together never made the playoffs for 6 years, Crosby would be nowhere near in the discussion for a top 10 player of all time.
I've played baseball 3 times in my life. Bar league softball is a joke. I was invited once as a fill in and it was my first time. The other guys had been there for 15 yrs. On my first game I smoked everyone. I was a perfect 100% at the plate and I robbed multiple guys in the outfield. I'm an athlete who plays basketball soccer and tennis, the rest of the guys there were blobs. I destroyed them with my eyes closed, and never went back again because it was such a joke in terms of competition. Yeah Nasher dumps on me when it comes to playing and analyzing baseball, but the simple fact is Otanhi and Trout have never made the playoffs together -- I'm not asking them to win. I'm asking them to be relevant, and as far as I'm concerned, they're not. Heroes are born in the postseason in all sports. Simple as that. Make the playoffs. Stop making excuses.Cause Sleep is the Cousin of DeathComment
