Any of you guys collect cards?

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  • RockBottom
    SBR MVP
    • 12-03-08
    • 1447

    #106
    The whales like Probstein and Goldin are getting better grades no doubt. The other scam is people cracking open slabs and resubmitting hoping for a better grade.
    Comment
    • ChuckyTheGoat
      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
      • 04-04-11
      • 36651

      #107
      Originally posted by RockBottom
      The whales like Probstein and Goldin are getting better grades no doubt. The other scam is people cracking open slabs and resubmitting hoping for a better grade.
      From talking to people at shows, that's what I hear. The grading companies service repeat-buyers, guys who keep sending the $$ thru.

      Similarly, a good dealer told me that you'd be wise to use a higher service beyond economy. If you pay for Premium service, you're spending money and your shipment will be graded pro-rata.
      Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
      Comment
      • JAKEPEAVY21
        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
        • 03-11-11
        • 29211

        #108
        Originally posted by RockBottom
        The whales like Probstein and Goldin are getting better grades no doubt. The other scam is people cracking open slabs and resubmitting hoping for a better grade.
        Not sure how doing that is a scam? The grading is subjective and sometimes it is the luck of the draw and depends on the grader that gets assigned your cards. I have never personally done it but can see why people do it, especially with high end cards in which they are not happy with the grade.

        I have probably graded between 500-600 cards and some that I thought should be 10s, got 6,7 or 8 and others that i thought had no chance of getting a 10, did indeed get a gem mint grade.

        In my experience, I feel that they are fair overall with their grading.
        Comment
        • hehfest
          SBR Hall of Famer
          • 09-28-08
          • 7934

          #109
          Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21
          Most older paper cards(a lot of the new modern cards are on a thicker chrome paper stock) are very tough to get high grades on so I would not hold my breath for great grades.

          I have submitted cards for my neighbor numerous times.

          I'd be happy to if you hand delivered the cards to me, otherwise it does not make a lot of sense for you or me and i do not want to be liable for any damages that potentially happen mailing the cards. I think my membership ends in a few months and I am not planning on renewing most likely.
          Here's the thing then Jake: Wouldn't the older cards that so many are off-center and on poor material, etc. Shouldn't those have a different grading criteria to receive higher grades? Such as oh, that's off-center but the rest of the card is in perfect condition. 9 sounds good here....basically based on what you wrote - they don't in any of those situations then?
          Comment
          • hehfest
            SBR Hall of Famer
            • 09-28-08
            • 7934

            #110
            Originally posted by hehfest
            Here's the thing then Jake: Wouldn't the older cards that so many are off-center and on poor material, etc. Shouldn't those have a different grading criteria to receive higher grades? Such as oh, that's off-center but the rest of the card is in perfect condition. 9 sounds good here....basically based on what you wrote - they don't in any of those situations then?
            Sort of like criteria for different eras.....should've just said that.
            Comment
            • hehfest
              SBR Hall of Famer
              • 09-28-08
              • 7934

              #111
              Originally posted by RockBottom
              The whales like Probstein and Goldin are getting better grades no doubt. The other scam is people cracking open slabs and resubmitting hoping for a better grade.

              I don't see a problem with the latter, because the grade is the grade it will get and if the new buyer buys it, then they can resell it at the same grade, etc.
              Comment
              • ChuckyTheGoat
                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                • 04-04-11
                • 36651

                #112
                Originally posted by hehfest
                Sort of like criteria for different eras.....should've just said that.
                I really don't think PSA grades to different eras. My observation:
                *Vintage cards carry a much lower Average Grade. The reasons are pretty obvious:
                1) Survival of cards across many decades is pretty low.
                ...I truly admire the tobacco-card collectors. You sometimes see cards >100 years old. Just surviving (and not being thrown out) is an achievement.

                2) Even if the old card survives, you have to think it could get dinged/damaged over several years.
                ...I can first-hand speak to some of the perils that cards can face.
                ...You sometimes hear about rare collections like the Swamp Find. Imagine going into your attic and finding pack-fresh Tobacco cards that were put into plastic 100 years ago.

                3) The modern card is a different animal.
                ...I'm biased but the modern card is mostly perfect coming out of the pack. Centering is normally good.
                ...Topps used to have very bad quality-control from 1980 and earlier. In some years, the centering was all over the place coming out of the factory.
                Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                Comment
                • ChuckyTheGoat
                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                  • 04-04-11
                  • 36651

                  #113
                  heh, as you see, I have a lot of opinions about the Card Collecting industry.

                  I resumed collecting about five years ago. And I've been taking it semi-seriously for most of the L5 years.

                  My suggestion would be:
                  1) Collect what you enjoy. Even if you can't sell it for be profit, be happy with the item you hold.
                  2) Turning over cards for a profit is difficult. It requires a good bit of time presenting your cards. It's a minority of dealers who can turn a consistent profit.
                  Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                  Comment
                  • ChuckyTheGoat
                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                    • 04-04-11
                    • 36651

                    #114
                    I mentioned my hockey collection. It mostly lines up to Gretzky's first 12 years in the league.

                    1979 - OPC Gretzky is the one Gretzky card I don't have. I do have three mid-grade Gretzky Topps rookies.


                    I have the five-year run of OPC sets:
                    1980 - Bourque/Gartner/Messier Rooks
                    1981 - Kurri/Coffey/Lowe Rooks
                    1982 - Fuhr/Francis/Mullen/Hawerchuk Rooks
                    1983 - Stevens/Housley Rooks
                    1984 - Yzerman/Gilmour/Lafontaine/Chelios/Neely Rooks

                    1984 is an amazing rookie crop. I never bought the 1985/1986 sets. The Mario/Roy rooks are exorbitant, out of my tax bracket.
                    Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                    Comment
                    • hehfest
                      SBR Hall of Famer
                      • 09-28-08
                      • 7934

                      #115
                      Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                      I mentioned my hockey collection. It mostly lines up to Gretzky's first 12 years in the league.

                      1979 - OPC Gretzky is the one Gretzky card I don't have. I do have three mid-grade Gretzky Topps rookies.


                      I have the five-year run of OPC sets:
                      1980 - Bourque/Gartner/Messier Rooks
                      1981 - Kurri/Coffey/Lowe Rooks
                      1982 - Fuhr/Francis/Mullen/Hawerchuk Rooks
                      1983 - Stevens/Housley Rooks
                      1984 - Yzerman/Gilmour/Lafontaine/Chelios/Neely Rooks

                      1984 is an amazing rookie crop. I never bought the 1985/1986 sets. The Mario/Roy rooks are exorbitant, out of my tax bracket.
                      You did the right thing buying OPC over Topps. That's a nice collection for sure. Oh shoot you like hockey I will show you a couple. LOL. I have a Lafontaine RC too, but not that great.

                      Story: I went to the Lafontaine hockey school that was in Wateford, MI at the Lakeland Ice Arena. It was 1 week long. His brother ran the camp. I think I was in Junior High at the time. So, last day of camp guess what? You're right. Pat showed up. Skated with us. Talked to us. For a kid, it was special. We were told he would be there, so I brought up a card for him to autograph. He was really good guy. Polite, fun, etc. His brother owns dealerships in the area (or did). I will post card later. I have some old cards from those years too, but most are banged up.

                      Lots of experiences as a kid playing travel hockey for so many years. Got to play games at Joe Louis Arena at least 3 times. Had Red Wings locker room. Visiting teams. Some players would show up and give autographs.
                      Comment
                      • JAKEPEAVY21
                        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                        • 03-11-11
                        • 29211

                        #116
                        Originally posted by hehfest
                        Here's the thing then Jake: Wouldn't the older cards that so many are off-center and on poor material, etc. Shouldn't those have a different grading criteria to receive higher grades? Such as oh, that's off-center but the rest of the card is in perfect condition. 9 sounds good here....basically based on what you wrote - they don't in any of those situations then?
                        Sounds good but that is not the reality, heh.

                        There is a reason some of the vintage cards in high grades sell for a small fortune...they are VERY tough grades.
                        Comment
                        • JAKEPEAVY21
                          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                          • 03-11-11
                          • 29211

                          #117
                          Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                          heh, as you see, I have a lot of opinions about the Card Collecting industry.

                          I resumed collecting about five years ago. And I've been taking it semi-seriously for most of the L5 years.

                          My suggestion would be:
                          1) Collect what you enjoy. Even if you can't sell it for be profit, be happy with the item you hold.
                          2) Turning over cards for a profit is difficult. It requires a good bit of time presenting your cards. It's a minority of dealers who can turn a consistent profit.
                          Absolutely agree with that point, Chucky.

                          As far as #2 goes, it is also kind of a hassle to move cards unless you want to set up at a card show or get bent over with the fees on Ebay. I have sold numerous cards at a loss as well...like any investment, sometimes you have to take it on the chin and move on.
                          Comment
                          • hehfest
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 09-28-08
                            • 7934

                            #118
                            Originally posted by hehfest
                            You did the right thing buying OPC over Topps. That's a nice collection for sure. Oh shoot you like hockey I will show you a couple. LOL. I have a Lafontaine RC too, but not that great.

                            Story: I went to the Lafontaine hockey school that was in Wateford, MI at the Lakeland Ice Arena. It was 1 week long. His brother ran the camp. I think I was in Junior High at the time. So, last day of camp guess what? You're right. Pat showed up. Skated with us. Talked to us. For a kid, it was special. We were told he would be there, so I brought up a card for him to autograph. He was really good guy. Polite, fun, etc. His brother owns dealerships in the area (or did). I will post card later. I have some old cards from those years too, but most are banged up.

                            Lots of experiences as a kid playing travel hockey for so many years. Got to play games at Joe Louis Arena at least 3 times. Had Red Wings locker room. Visiting teams. Some players would show up and give autographs.
                            [IMG]<img src="https://i.ibb.co/6nndG2v/Loft.jpg" alt="Loft" border="0">[/IMG]

                            Glass case smeared with sticker residue. Sadly, off-center again.
                            Comment
                            • ChuckyTheGoat
                              BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                              • 04-04-11
                              • 36651

                              #119
                              Wow, that's awesome. I'm not a big autograph guy, but there is a market for Autos in the hobby.

                              I have a different view. I would never let a player sign the card, if I think the card is nice. In my mind, it damages the original. But that's just my view. There is a definitely a big market for Auto cards.

                              I was a big Pat La fan. "La-la-la-Lafontaine." I was an even bigger fan of his linemate, Alex Mogilny.
                              Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                              Comment
                              • hehfest
                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                • 09-28-08
                                • 7934

                                #120
                                Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                                Wow, that's awesome. I'm not a big autograph guy, but there is a market for Autos in the hobby.

                                I have a different view. I would never let a player sign the card, if I think the card is nice. In my mind, it damages the original. But that's just my view. There is a definitely a big market for Auto cards.

                                I was a big Pat La fan. "La-la-la-Lafontaine." I was an even bigger fan of his linemate, Alex Mogilny.

                                In this case, the card (not seen from picture) is creased in a strange way on the mid-upper-right. 2 little crease lines that go in just to the border. Le'ts put it this way, it probably does not grade well but the auto might help the value whatever that may be.
                                Comment
                                • ChuckyTheGoat
                                  BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                  • 04-04-11
                                  • 36651

                                  #121
                                  Lafontaine was so good. Most of the great NHL players in the 80s were Canadian-born. I almost forget that LaFontaine (with a French name) was American-born.

                                  He was dynamic. From WIKI: His 1.17 points per game (1,013 points over 865 games) is the best among American-born ice hockey players, active or retired.


                                  Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                  Comment
                                  • hehfest
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 09-28-08
                                    • 7934

                                    #122
                                    Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                                    Wow, that's awesome. I'm not a big autograph guy, but there is a market for Autos in the hobby.

                                    I have a different view. I would never let a player sign the card, if I think the card is nice. In my mind, it damages the original. But that's just my view. There is a definitely a big market for Auto cards.

                                    I was a big Pat La fan. "La-la-la-Lafontaine." I was an even bigger fan of his linemate, Alex Mogilny.
                                    LOL Chuck - I have a Rick Mahorn auto on the card too. I always wondered about the auto's and having them sign right on the card. Being a kid, I didn't care I suppose. I have so few of autos anyway it won't matter to me.
                                    Comment
                                    • hehfest
                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                      • 09-28-08
                                      • 7934

                                      #123
                                      Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                                      Lafontaine was so good. Most of the great NHL players in the 80s were Canadian-born. I almost forget that LaFontaine (with a French name) was American-born.

                                      He was dynamic. From WIKI: His 1.17 points per game (1,013 points over 865 games) is the best among American-born ice hockey players, active or retired.


                                      I was always a big fan of his growing up because he was American born indeed. His brother has those dealerships around here. I think Pat has to be born and raised in the MICH?
                                      Comment
                                      • lakerboy
                                        SBR Aristocracy
                                        • 04-02-09
                                        • 94363

                                        #124
                                        Originally posted by hehfest
                                        You did the right thing buying OPC over Topps. That's a nice collection for sure. Oh shoot you like hockey I will show you a couple. LOL. I have a Lafontaine RC too, but not that great.

                                        Story: I went to the Lafontaine hockey school that was in Wateford, MI at the Lakeland Ice Arena. It was 1 week long. His brother ran the camp. I think I was in Junior High at the time. So, last day of camp guess what? You're right. Pat showed up. Skated with us. Talked to us. For a kid, it was special. We were told he would be there, so I brought up a card for him to autograph. He was really good guy. Polite, fun, etc. His brother owns dealerships in the area (or did). I will post card later. I have some old cards from those years too, but most are banged up.

                                        Lots of experiences as a kid playing travel hockey for so many years. Got to play games at Joe Louis Arena at least 3 times. Had Red Wings locker room. Visiting teams. Some players would show up and give autographs.
                                        What is a LaFontaine rookie worth? I have one and I also have 6 Roy rookie cards with 3 in Mint condition. I pretty much have all the great 80s guys

                                        Francis
                                        Roy
                                        Lemieux
                                        Yzerman
                                        Kurri
                                        Coffey
                                        Bourque was really a big card I have one but not in great condition.
                                        Comment
                                        • ChuckyTheGoat
                                          BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                          • 04-04-11
                                          • 36651

                                          #125
                                          One other little tidbit on the Auto market. I understand collectors who focus on the Auto market.

                                          Everyone's days are numbered. Consider HOFers who are up there in years. Collectors will pay for those autos.

                                          The reason is obvious. And maybe in a morbid sense. When that guy passes away, there are no more autos, the supply is cut off.

                                          I do hear stories of a HOFer auto going up in value after said player passes. Just part of the game.

                                          Personal sidebar note: I don't really care about Autos. What I do enjoy, however, is talking to the former players for a couple minutes. I've spoken with several, some big-names and some lesser-names. I really like recalling certain plays/games they were in. And I can say that the players get a kick out of that, too.
                                          Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                          Comment
                                          • ChuckyTheGoat
                                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                            • 04-04-11
                                            • 36651

                                            #126
                                            Laker, some recent Ebay sales on the first few cards you refence:

                                            LaFontaine:
                                            *OPC in PSA 9 = $100
                                            *Topps in PSA 9 = $50

                                            Patrick Roy
                                            *OPC in PSA 9 = $700
                                            *Topps in PSA 9 = $400

                                            Some HOFers like LaFontaine/Kurri seemed so cheap to me. On the high-end, I could never wrap my head around how pricey Roy was.
                                            Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                            Comment
                                            • lakerboy
                                              SBR Aristocracy
                                              • 04-02-09
                                              • 94363

                                              #127
                                              Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                                              Laker, some recent Ebay sales on the first few cards you refence:

                                              LaFontaine:
                                              *OPC in PSA 9 = $100
                                              *Topps in PSA 9 = $50

                                              Patrick Roy
                                              *OPC in PSA 9 = $700
                                              *Topps in PSA 9 = $400

                                              Some HOFers like LaFontaine/Kurri seemed so cheap to me. On the high-end, I could never wrap my head around how pricey Roy was.
                                              I see Roy for so many varying prices even in 5 digits.
                                              Comment
                                              • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                • 04-04-11
                                                • 36651

                                                #128
                                                Originally posted by lakerboy
                                                I see Roy for so many varying prices even in 5 digits.
                                                Laker, that might be true. Pay close attention to the Sales date.

                                                Card prices are going down at the moment. Prices change quickly.
                                                Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                Comment
                                                • hehfest
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 09-28-08
                                                  • 7934

                                                  #129
                                                  Originally posted by lakerboy
                                                  I see Roy for so many varying prices even in 5 digits.

                                                  Yeah, Laker, I really don't know prices. I'm going through all my old cards to see what I have. The gem mint 10's could go for outrageous amounts if someone will pay that. You're in good shape with those Roy's. Or as I like to spell it, Wah!
                                                  Comment
                                                  • hehfest
                                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                                    • 09-28-08
                                                    • 7934

                                                    #130
                                                    Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                                                    Laker, that might be true. Pay close attention to the Sales date.

                                                    Card prices are going down at the moment. Prices change quickly.
                                                    Those 88-89 fleer baskets have been going up quite a bit but I don't know about right now. Just the last few years...
                                                    Comment
                                                    • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                      • 04-04-11
                                                      • 36651

                                                      #131
                                                      Originally posted by hehfest
                                                      Those 88-89 fleer baskets have been going up quite a bit but I don't know about right now. Just the last few years...
                                                      Check the graph at the bottom of each page. The trend-lines are mostly similar:
                                                      *Peak prices in early 2021.
                                                      *Current prices are the lowest they've been in L4 years.

                                                      The Pippen graph looks a lot like the other Bask cards from the 1980s:
                                                      Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                      Comment
                                                      • hehfest
                                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                                        • 09-28-08
                                                        • 7934

                                                        #132
                                                        Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                                                        Check the graph at the bottom of each page. The trend-lines are mostly similar:
                                                        *Peak prices in early 2021.
                                                        *Current prices are the lowest they've been in L4 years.

                                                        The Pippen graph looks a lot like the other Bask cards from the 1980s:
                                                        https://www.psacard.com/auctionprice...ues/299823#g=9

                                                        Looking at other card ads, etc. That pippen rookie card looks perfect and got an 8. Yikes.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • k13
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 07-16-10
                                                          • 18053

                                                          #133
                                                          PSA grades super tough on vintage and paper now
                                                          Almost not worth grading unless huge card.
                                                          9 looking cards will get you 7s.

                                                          They are very inconsistent with the amount of cards they are doing monthly. Me and my buddy just got an order back and it was 85% 10s but the previous order we got destroyed and doubt it was even 50%. All the cards look similar.

                                                          Older BGS grades were tough. My 9s look better than PSA 10s.
                                                          Old PSA grades can look two grades lower.

                                                          Cards are fun but demand has left the train for the most part.
                                                          Not sure if it will ever comeback in our lifetime thanks to COVID destruction/manipulation.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • ChuckyTheGoat
                                                            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                            • 04-04-11
                                                            • 36651

                                                            #134
                                                            Originally posted by k13
                                                            PSA grades super tough on vintage and paper now
                                                            Almost not worth grading unless huge card.
                                                            9 looking cards will get you 7s.

                                                            They are very inconsistent with the amount of cards they are doing monthly. Me and my buddy just got an order back and it was 85% 10s but the previous order we got destroyed and doubt it was even 50%. All the cards look similar.

                                                            Older BGS grades were tough. My 9s look better than PSA 10s.
                                                            Old PSA grades can look two grades lower.

                                                            Cards are fun but demand has left the train for the most part.
                                                            Not sure if it will ever comeback in our lifetime thanks to COVID destruction/manipulation.
                                                            That's a good post. Good info.

                                                            1) I hear you on the Demand-side. I referenced those price graphs. On most price charts I've seen, peak was around Jan 2021, slow decline since then. It sure looks like a buying opportunity.

                                                            2) But you could be right. Card-collecting should be viewed as a non-essential item. I'd like to think that some vintage items hold collector value. But who is bidding on cards? If someone has to pay for food/shelter/gas, the pool of bidders is smaller.

                                                            3) The graders will drive you nuts. Good anecdote on the PSA return. One of my favorite angles is the early PSA card with the "0xxx" number. In the very early PSA days, they were too loose on grading the centering. If you see an early PSA 9 with the "0xxx", it would probably grade as a PSA 8 now under stricter grading.
                                                            Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?
                                                            Comment
                                                            • USCPHILLYGUY
                                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                                              • 12-15-12
                                                              • 21744

                                                              #135
                                                              Found this really cool Barkley Fleer 1990 error card


                                                              Comment
                                                              • USCPHILLYGUY
                                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                                • 12-15-12
                                                                • 21744

                                                                #136
                                                                You see the 1st year FG % is off centered. Wonder if it’s worth something

                                                                Comment
                                                                • k13
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 07-16-10
                                                                  • 18053

                                                                  #137
                                                                  Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat
                                                                  Laker, some recent Ebay sales on the first few cards you refence:

                                                                  LaFontaine:
                                                                  *OPC in PSA 9 = $100
                                                                  *Topps in PSA 9 = $50

                                                                  Patrick Roy
                                                                  *OPC in PSA 9 = $700
                                                                  *Topps in PSA 9 = $400

                                                                  Some HOFers like LaFontaine/Kurri seemed so cheap to me. On the high-end, I could never wrap my head around how pricey Roy was.
                                                                  Roy is because he played for Montreal.
                                                                  Biggest premium in sports.

                                                                  Even bums traded to Montreal sell great.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • USCPHILLYGUY
                                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                                    • 12-15-12
                                                                    • 21744

                                                                    #138
                                                                    Another one of my favorites as well…..

                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • RockBottom
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 12-03-08
                                                                      • 1447

                                                                      #139
                                                                      Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21
                                                                      Not sure how doing that is a scam? The grading is subjective and sometimes it is the luck of the draw and depends on the grader that gets assigned your cards. I have never personally done it but can see why people do it, especially with high end cards in which they are not happy with the grade.

                                                                      I have probably graded between 500-600 cards and some that I thought should be 10s, got 6,7 or 8 and others that i thought had no chance of getting a 10, did indeed get a gem mint grade.

                                                                      In my experience, I feel that they are fair overall with their grading.
                                                                      If you have a 8 and resubmit it, now it’s a 9, why is it a 9 instead of a 8? Is the second grade more accurate than the first? Flippers only care about the grade and nothing else. Not saying you, it’s directed to the new money in the last 3-4 years.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • JAKEPEAVY21
                                                                        BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                        • 03-11-11
                                                                        • 29211

                                                                        #140
                                                                        Originally posted by RockBottom
                                                                        If you have a 8 and resubmit it, now it’s a 9, why is it a 9 instead of a 8? Is the second grade more accurate than the first? Flippers only care about the grade and nothing else. Not saying you, it’s directed to the new money in the last 3-4 years.
                                                                        It's a gamble, I do not see a problem with it if that is what someone wants to attempt.

                                                                        No, the 2nd grade isn't more accurate from the first but you got fortunate with an easier grader or they saw the card's condition differently than the first one.
                                                                        Comment
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