The whales like Probstein and Goldin are getting better grades no doubt. The other scam is people cracking open slabs and resubmitting hoping for a better grade.
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From talking to people at shows, that's what I hear. The grading companies service repeat-buyers, guys who keep sending the $$ thru.
Similarly, a good dealer told me that you'd be wise to use a higher service beyond economy. If you pay for Premium service, you're spending money and your shipment will be graded pro-rata.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
Not sure how doing that is a scam? The grading is subjective and sometimes it is the luck of the draw and depends on the grader that gets assigned your cards. I have never personally done it but can see why people do it, especially with high end cards in which they are not happy with the grade.
I have probably graded between 500-600 cards and some that I thought should be 10s, got 6,7 or 8 and others that i thought had no chance of getting a 10, did indeed get a gem mint grade.
In my experience, I feel that they are fair overall with their grading.Comment -
Here's the thing then Jake: Wouldn't the older cards that so many are off-center and on poor material, etc. Shouldn't those have a different grading criteria to receive higher grades? Such as oh, that's off-center but the rest of the card is in perfect condition. 9 sounds good here....basically based on what you wrote - they don't in any of those situations then?Comment -
I really don't think PSA grades to different eras. My observation:
*Vintage cards carry a much lower Average Grade. The reasons are pretty obvious:
1) Survival of cards across many decades is pretty low.
...I truly admire the tobacco-card collectors. You sometimes see cards >100 years old. Just surviving (and not being thrown out) is an achievement.
2) Even if the old card survives, you have to think it could get dinged/damaged over several years.
...I can first-hand speak to some of the perils that cards can face.
...You sometimes hear about rare collections like the Swamp Find. Imagine going into your attic and finding pack-fresh Tobacco cards that were put into plastic 100 years ago.
3) The modern card is a different animal.
...I'm biased but the modern card is mostly perfect coming out of the pack. Centering is normally good.
...Topps used to have very bad quality-control from 1980 and earlier. In some years, the centering was all over the place coming out of the factory.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
heh, as you see, I have a lot of opinions about the Card Collecting industry.
I resumed collecting about five years ago. And I've been taking it semi-seriously for most of the L5 years.
My suggestion would be:
1) Collect what you enjoy. Even if you can't sell it for be profit, be happy with the item you hold.
2) Turning over cards for a profit is difficult. It requires a good bit of time presenting your cards. It's a minority of dealers who can turn a consistent profit.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
I mentioned my hockey collection. It mostly lines up to Gretzky's first 12 years in the league.
1979 - OPC Gretzky is the one Gretzky card I don't have. I do have three mid-grade Gretzky Topps rookies.
I have the five-year run of OPC sets:
1980 - Bourque/Gartner/Messier Rooks
1981 - Kurri/Coffey/Lowe Rooks
1982 - Fuhr/Francis/Mullen/Hawerchuk Rooks
1983 - Stevens/Housley Rooks
1984 - Yzerman/Gilmour/Lafontaine/Chelios/Neely Rooks
1984 is an amazing rookie crop. I never bought the 1985/1986 sets. The Mario/Roy rooks are exorbitant, out of my tax bracket.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
You did the right thing buying OPC over Topps. That's a nice collection for sure. Oh shoot you like hockey I will show you a couple. LOL. I have a Lafontaine RC too, but not that great.I mentioned my hockey collection. It mostly lines up to Gretzky's first 12 years in the league.
1979 - OPC Gretzky is the one Gretzky card I don't have. I do have three mid-grade Gretzky Topps rookies.
I have the five-year run of OPC sets:
1980 - Bourque/Gartner/Messier Rooks
1981 - Kurri/Coffey/Lowe Rooks
1982 - Fuhr/Francis/Mullen/Hawerchuk Rooks
1983 - Stevens/Housley Rooks
1984 - Yzerman/Gilmour/Lafontaine/Chelios/Neely Rooks
1984 is an amazing rookie crop. I never bought the 1985/1986 sets. The Mario/Roy rooks are exorbitant, out of my tax bracket.
Story: I went to the Lafontaine hockey school that was in Wateford, MI at the Lakeland Ice Arena. It was 1 week long. His brother ran the camp. I think I was in Junior High at the time. So, last day of camp guess what? You're right. Pat showed up. Skated with us. Talked to us. For a kid, it was special. We were told he would be there, so I brought up a card for him to autograph. He was really good guy. Polite, fun, etc. His brother owns dealerships in the area (or did). I will post card later. I have some old cards from those years too, but most are banged up.
Lots of experiences as a kid playing travel hockey for so many years. Got to play games at Joe Louis Arena at least 3 times. Had Red Wings locker room. Visiting teams. Some players would show up and give autographs.Comment -
Absolutely agree with that point, Chucky.
As far as #2 goes, it is also kind of a hassle to move cards unless you want to set up at a card show or get bent over with the fees on Ebay. I have sold numerous cards at a loss as well...like any investment, sometimes you have to take it on the chin and move on.Comment -
Wow, that's awesome. I'm not a big autograph guy, but there is a market for Autos in the hobby.
I have a different view. I would never let a player sign the card, if I think the card is nice. In my mind, it damages the original. But that's just my view. There is a definitely a big market for Auto cards.
I was a big Pat La fan. "La-la-la-Lafontaine." I was an even bigger fan of his linemate, Alex Mogilny.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
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Lafontaine was so good. Most of the great NHL players in the 80s were Canadian-born. I almost forget that LaFontaine (with a French name) was American-born.
He was dynamic. From WIKI: His 1.17 points per game (1,013 points over 865 games) is the best among American-born ice hockey players, active or retired.
Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
One other little tidbit on the Auto market. I understand collectors who focus on the Auto market.
Everyone's days are numbered. Consider HOFers who are up there in years. Collectors will pay for those autos.
The reason is obvious. And maybe in a morbid sense. When that guy passes away, there are no more autos, the supply is cut off.
I do hear stories of a HOFer auto going up in value after said player passes. Just part of the game.
Personal sidebar note: I don't really care about Autos. What I do enjoy, however, is talking to the former players for a couple minutes. I've spoken with several, some big-names and some lesser-names. I really like recalling certain plays/games they were in. And I can say that the players get a kick out of that, too.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
Laker, some recent Ebay sales on the first few cards you refence:
LaFontaine:
*OPC in PSA 9 = $100
*Topps in PSA 9 = $50
Patrick Roy
*OPC in PSA 9 = $700
*Topps in PSA 9 = $400
Some HOFers like LaFontaine/Kurri seemed so cheap to me. On the high-end, I could never wrap my head around how pricey Roy was.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
Check the graph at the bottom of each page. The trend-lines are mostly similar:
*Peak prices in early 2021.
*Current prices are the lowest they've been in L4 years.
The Pippen graph looks a lot like the other Bask cards from the 1980s:
Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
PSA grades super tough on vintage and paper now
Almost not worth grading unless huge card.
9 looking cards will get you 7s.
They are very inconsistent with the amount of cards they are doing monthly. Me and my buddy just got an order back and it was 85% 10s but the previous order we got destroyed and doubt it was even 50%. All the cards look similar.
Older BGS grades were tough. My 9s look better than PSA 10s.
Old PSA grades can look two grades lower.
Cards are fun but demand has left the train for the most part.
Not sure if it will ever comeback in our lifetime thanks to COVID destruction/manipulation.Comment -
That's a good post. Good info.
1) I hear you on the Demand-side. I referenced those price graphs. On most price charts I've seen, peak was around Jan 2021, slow decline since then. It sure looks like a buying opportunity.
2) But you could be right. Card-collecting should be viewed as a non-essential item. I'd like to think that some vintage items hold collector value. But who is bidding on cards? If someone has to pay for food/shelter/gas, the pool of bidders is smaller.
3) The graders will drive you nuts. Good anecdote on the PSA return. One of my favorite angles is the early PSA card with the "0xxx" number. In the very early PSA days, they were too loose on grading the centering. If you see an early PSA 9 with the "0xxx", it would probably grade as a PSA 8 now under stricter grading.Where's the fuckin power box, Carol?Comment -
Found this really cool Barkley Fleer 1990 error card
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You see the 1st year FG % is off centered. Wonder if it’s worth something
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Another one of my favorites as well…..
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