Poker aint got shite on Sportsbetting

**20Four7** · 02-26-08, 12:45 PM

You re raise to $30 he calls. So far so good you want to do that with AA. $60 in the pot. Why in gods good name are you pushing $150+ in there. It's a $60 pot. He could have called you with 55 and hit a set. You lost because you played it bad not because of anything else. The only hand that calls you here is the one that beats you. Learn about pot odds, fold equity and losing the minimum when your beat, then come back and talk.

**armyoflovers** · 02-26-08, 01:11 PM

[QUOTE=20Four7;561689]You re raise to $30 he calls. So far so good you want to do that with AA. $60 in the pot. Why in gods good name are you pushing $150+ in there. It's a $60 pot. He could have called you with 55 and hit a set. You lost because you played it bad not because of anything else. The only hand that calls you here is the one that beats you. Learn about pot odds, fold equity and losing the minimum when your beat, then come back and talk.[/QUOTE

I know about pot odds big sarge, but i wasnt laying my aces down no matter the circumstance and he sure wansnt laying his crappola 5 7 down so its a moot point.

**20Four7** · 02-26-08, 01:43 PM

If your not laying down your Aces then by all means push but that a good strategy. Your being called only by the hand that beats you. You still did have outs, any A, any card that pairs the board that isn't a 5 or 7. I would never push 3x the pot in.

**hoopster42** · 02-26-08, 03:57 PM

these bad beats happen all the time. if you dont know that, then you havent played poker long enough. one bad beat does not mean its worse than sports. maybe for you, but not for accomplished poker players

**20Four7** · 02-26-08, 06:24 PM

From the L.A poker classic:

Scott Wilson Eliminated in 46th Place ($26,170)
Scott Wilson raises 28,000 and Hellmuth makes the call from the big blind. The flop rolls out 843 and Wilson bets, Hellmuth moves all in and Wilson makes the all-in call. They then turn up their hands:

Hellmuth: 43
Wilson: AA

Turn and River: 96

Wilson is eliminated in 46th place on the hand, and he will take home $26,170 in prize money. Helmuth now has 520,000.

**rake922** · 02-26-08, 08:04 PM

43 suited?

**donjuan** · 02-26-08, 10:12 PM

Hilarious. Anyone who isn't a moron should have a much, much higher edge at a 1/2 NL game than in sports betting, making swings much less volatile.

**chandler1981** · 02-26-08, 11:34 PM

I agree with 20four7.

That was a great raise you made and a terrible call by them. I know you agree now, but after the flop a pot size bet would have possibly saved you some money. Maybe even a smaller bet or either a check. Then he bets, you raise and he prob would have reraised all in. You could've escaped only losing the 30 plus the bet he made and your raise.

He probably would have bet 10 bucks to try to keep you in the hand. You raise to 30. Now he goes all in and you can fold and only lost 60 instead of 200.

Im not sure of the suites that were on te flop but remember ppl at low stakes tables are always looking to suck out a flush on the river.

Tough loss man. I wish you better luck if you decide to play again soon. I can't possibly remember all of my bad beat stories, but I don't make a habit of going all in unless I have the nutz. It usually costs you alot more than it is worth.

If he folded, you only made 30 bucks anyway. Assuming you had him beat, you would have not gotten the most out of your hand.

I know hindsight is easy to talk about, but try not to push all in unless you KNOW you have the best hand or unless the person against you can't afford to call.

Sorry for being so long.

**20Four7** · 02-27-08, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by donjuan

Hilarious. Anyone who isn't a moron should have a much, much higher edge at a 1/2 NL game than in sports betting, making swings much less volatile.

That is true don. And as always remember the amount of money you make in poker is based on the gap between your SKILL level and your opponents skill level.

Unfortunately most people cannot truly analyze their game and see mistakes that are made.

**jjgold** · 02-27-08, 06:55 AM

Guys pros make huge moves all the time with nothing, watch high stakes poker and learn before you judge how rookies play.

**VegasDave** · 02-27-08, 07:42 AM

I just was gonna post how amazing poker is...

Just went down to the Bicycle Casino sat down at the $80 max $3 $1 blinds...

3 hours later I cash out $590.

I thought playing poker online is the same but it isn't even close. You can tell sharp players from complete morons just from looking at them. Betting patterns are hilarious... will be a $9 pot flop comes Qh 7h 3s all 3 check... turn comes 2h... check check $60 bet! To a $9 pot! Gee wonder if this moron has the flush?

Some people will play bottom pairs and draws out to the river no matter what. Yeah, sucks when they hit it but if you money manage properly and watch their faces when they get stupid little grins when their shit hits, it is *so* easy to win.

I won't be playing online again anytime soon.

**Uncle Joe** · 02-27-08, 08:13 AM

Poker online sucks but its a good way to pass a hour or two. Got to play it in person to understand it and enjoy it.

**donjuan** · 02-27-08, 12:03 PM

I won't be playing online again anytime soon.

Live games are softer than online when playing at the same stakes. 1/2 NLHE live is probably equivalent to .05/.10 online.

**donjuan** · 02-27-08, 12:05 PM

That is true don. And as always remember the amount of money you make in poker is based on the gap between your SKILL level and your opponents skill level.

Unfortunately most people cannot truly analyze their game and see mistakes that are made.

Yep, which is why moving up stakes in sports betting is much easier than moving up stakes in poker.

**slacker00** · 02-28-08, 04:56 AM

AA is a good hand in Hold 'Em. It doesn't win automatically. They do deal out 5 more cards.

Also, if you're going to go ballistic about one stinking hand, you've got a lot of experience to gain. Try having a whole day with hands like that, or weeks.

Trick is, playing tons and tons of hands. Play 50k hands a month, and you won't sweat little suckouts like this one.

Maybe also switch to limit, or maybe a different game entirely like stud. That often helps my mind wake up a little bit and get back on track.

**treece** · 02-28-08, 05:29 AM

i can't stand poker anymore. i made money at it but its just so damn boring. i even hate watching it on tv. sportsbetting is much better and entertaining as well. when else can you swear at the tv for a few hours.

**jon13009** · 02-28-08, 09:32 AM

At first, while learning to play poker, I loved playing online and thought it was exciting and interesting. As you progress and realize how many pitfalls are involved online (collusion, possible "superaccounts" playing for the house, Bot and idiot players "catching" cards....) the excitement started to subside. With no real regulation going on, the online books will find ways to get your money. At least with sportsbetting you have more of a chance that the outcomes are real (sans fixes.)

I just play free online freeroll poker tournaments to get some practice prior to going to Atlantic City or Nevada and playing live poker. Sitting at a live table is far more enjoyable and interesting than sitting at my computer and turning off my chat because some moron is venting garbage at the table while playing like an idiot.

**McBa1n** · 02-28-08, 01:24 PM

Horrible call by that guy - and I semi-agree with pushing in after the flop. If he's cold calling you preflop, you have to assume he's got something - and with the right flop, you're in trouble. You have to assume he's got a pair - maybe AK quite possible AQ. Anytime you pump a raise like that and get flat called, you have to slow down with rockets and see what they do after the flop - it may have saved you a few bucks... But knowing what he had after the flop, I would've put it all in the middle 100 times out of 100.

**armyoflovers** · 02-28-08, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by McBa1n

Horrible call by that guy - and I semi-agree with pushing in after the flop. If he's cold calling you preflop, you have to assume he's got something - and with the right flop, you're in trouble. You have to assume he's got a pair - maybe AK quite possible AQ. Anytime you pump a raise like that and get flat called, you have to slow down with rockets and see what they do after the flop - it may have saved you a few bucks... But knowing what he had after the flop, I would've put it all in the middle 100 times out of 100.

Thank you sir, my sentiment exactly. Someone else mentioned that hindsight is 20/20, and thats what premise theyre using to disect my play. I raised this greasy SOB like 5x his cruddy 5 7 OFFSUIT raise and he increduously calls. Pls tell me who the person is who is going to throw away pocket rockets when a mundane flop such as 2 5 7 or whatever it was comes up? I wont - and neither will anyone else out there - JJ, 20Four7, NO ONE. I have to assume, as you said, that he missed the flop as well and may have AK or KK.

Trust me, I have more than enough poker experience to know that I have also won in similar fashion (although not as egregious as that). But someone PLEASE let me know where my poker acumen comes into play there. No amount of skill and experience will compel you to throw down AA in that situation. I did the RIGHT and ONLY thing to do. So MMQBing is real simple and easy, but plant yourself in my shoes for a sec and youll see why I quit online poker. I will take my licks in sportbetting knowing that when i win, I was on the right side and when I lose, I was on the wrong side. When I lose shit like that in poker, I was on the RIGHT side but ended up on the WRONG side.

**donjuan** · 02-28-08, 02:11 PM

I will take my licks in sportbetting knowing that when i win, I was on the right side and when I lose, I was on the wrong side.

Look up Probability Density Function and Probability Distribution and think of how they might relate to sports betting. Then you'll realize how patently wrong the above statement is.

**20Four7** · 02-28-08, 02:13 PM

Poker is about knowing how much to bet. Betting 3x the pot here is NOT the thing to do. I'm not saying I might not get it all in there anyways, but would not PUSH it all in after that flop. Would I have bet $50 DAMN right I would. If he pushed would I have called I can't answer that. That would depend on what he had been playing, what he had shown down etc. Was there a flush draw? Did he hit a set? You have to put him on HIS cards not just look at your cards. Where you ahead largely preflop YES (over 80%). After the flop you were no larger than 25% to win the hand.

I never said I wouldn't have gotten all in eventually. I'm saying you gave yourself no opportunity to get away from this hand and even determine if you were beat. Heads up would I raise with 77 YES, would I raise with 10 10 YES. You looked completely at your cards and gave no consideration to his cards.

**armyoflovers** · 02-28-08, 02:56 PM

Granted, my post-flop all-in was very ambitious indeed. But it lacks no relevance to the hand at issue. Shoving 3x the pot amount is NOT savvy poker playing per se, but in this instance the shove amount isnt what the crux is, its the fact that this donk calls my massive raise with next to nothing. And I know about most/all of the statisical/prob functions associated with betting, and I opt to go that route instead of have this wanker crack my AA and proceed to rub salt in my wound (ed ego)

**donjuan** · 02-28-08, 03:00 PM

So if he played it so poorly, what exactly are you mad about? If you are a decent poker player, you will realize that you need the other side to win sometimes or else they won't keep coming back. It's why poker is popular and chess isn't.

**armyoflovers** · 02-28-08, 03:04 PM

Poker is popular because its easy to learn and difficult to master. And with plays such as the one ive been alluding too, its also impossible to foolproof as well.

And while I WAS mad two days ago, I am no longer peeved. It, like all other things, comes to pass.....

**donjuan** · 02-28-08, 03:50 PM

You still haven't answered why you were mad if he played so poorly.

**armyoflovers** · 02-28-08, 04:58 PM

I dont reckon that I am mad b/c he played poorly, rather the dubious circumstances that played out. If that indirectly means that the circumstances existed due to his "poor" play, than so be it. I know AA preflop isnt invincincible, but it sure does bite to have them cracked.

**donjuan** · 02-28-08, 05:00 PM

How were the circumstances remotely dubious?

**armyoflovers** · 02-29-08, 09:28 AM

Dubious due to 5 7 offsuit. If you think 57 offsuit is not dubious then you belong on the same table playing with that schmuck who has my stack.

**donjuan** · 02-29-08, 09:32 AM

Calling it dubious implies some kind of foul play or wrongdoing. I really wouldn't worry about "that schmuck who has your stack" unless I was a bad player with no concept of how to make money at poker.

**armyoflovers** · 02-29-08, 10:35 AM

I think dubious means of questionable character, if you want to challenge me, www.dictionary.com

**donjuan** · 02-29-08, 11:00 AM

Regardless, there is no reason to be upset with his play.

**armyoflovers** · 02-29-08, 11:08 AM

im not upset with his play, I think I already covered it. And it isnt regardless to me, I know how to properly segue the context of words into my write-ups.....check down, not up big sarge....

**donjuan** · 02-29-08, 12:33 PM

Still waiting for the response to this one:

I will take my licks in sportbetting knowing that when i win, I was on the right side and when I lose, I was on the wrong side.

Originally posted by donjuan

Look up Probability Density Function and Probability Distribution and think of how they might relate to sports betting. Then you'll realize how patently wrong the above statement is.

**Quebb Diesel** · 02-29-08, 12:37 PM

pdf's apply to anything and everything...tell him to research something more specific...maybe of specific distributions that apply to sports