Message From CEO Of Sportingbet AU

**shari91** · 04-05-12, 06:15 AM

Yeah Betfair sent out basically the same thing a couple of days ago.

Dear Shari,

Many of you would be aware of Friday’s verdict by the High Court of Australia which rejected Betfair’s appeal against the decision by Racing New South Wales and Harness Racing NSW to impose a fee of 1.5% of wagering turnover for the right to publish NSW race fields.

Betfair had claimed that a turnover fee was unconstitutional on the grounds that it is discriminatory and protectionist in its nature.

Betfair customers understand that our product differs significantly from that of a traditional bookmaker and the totes, providing innovative ways of engaging with wagering and racing and a new value proposition that provides an incremental benefit to the punter and therefore to racing. A turnover tax reduces competition, and therefore marginalises punters, as it equates to a much larger percentage of Betfair’s overall revenue than our competitors. The High Court’s ruling means that it is now six-times more expensive for Betfair to offer New South Wales racing than any other state in Australia.

While we are obviously disappointed with the decision, it is crucial our customers understand that it is very much ‘business as usual’ at Betfair and that we remain committed to Australia and our customers. Of course, we will be reviewing the commercial options available to us in order to best respond to the judgment and we will keep you informed of any action that we take.

Giles Thompson
Chief Executive Officer, Betfair Australasia.

**Duff85** · 04-05-12, 06:16 AM

Yep and Sportsbet. Seems like they are getting piped by Racing NSW. Still they make enough off the mugs anyway.

**jjgold** · 04-05-12, 06:16 AM

What does this mean??

**shari91** · 04-05-12, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

What does this mean??

Basically if a book wants to post NSW racing lines, they're getting jacked for 1.5% of total turnover for that race. Betfair gets mugged the worst, but Sportsbet also was part of the appeal. This whole time the money the books were paying was held in a trust until the High Court ruled. Now that they have, NSW Racing has become $100 million richer which they say they're going to use to increase prize money and improve their tracks and buildings or whatever. And now that they won, Racing Victoria has come out and said it's going to do the same thing as racing is that much more huge here thanks to the Spring Carnival. NSW is going to make between $40-50 million a year alone from the books because of this each year - huge amount of money paid out simply for the honour of posting betting lines. Without those lines published, many people wouldn't bother paying attention to those races at all, go figure.

Oh and even worse, other sports organisations here have come out and said they're going to look into this as well. Not good at all for bettors.

"A former high-level TAB official said rapid recent growth had driven up total sports betting turnover in Australia to $5 billion a year, with the NRL comprising about 25 per cent of this figure, or $1.25 billion.Based on the 1.5 per cent turnover levy upheld in the High Court, this would pour nearly $19 million back to the NRL to be pumped into the sport.
NRL CEO David Gallop said that he would look closely at the judgment: "We've been at the forefront of working with the other codes in establishing the principle that sports are entitled to compensation from companies that make money by running betting markets on our events and the decision reinforces that position.".
Spokesmen for the AFL and Cricket Australia said they would "assess" the judgment from their sports' perspective.
Football Federation Australia CEO Ben Buckley said: "If we can generate more income, (it) will flow to our clubs and grass roots football communities."

**Duff85** · 04-05-12, 06:24 AM

The books have to pay more money to the tracks, but they are saying that they won't pass that charge on to the customers.

**FourLengthsClear** · 04-05-12, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

What does this mean??

It means that it will be uneconomic for Betfair to continue to offer NSW racing. The 'turnover' for an exchange which collects commission on net profit per market/event will be 3 or 4 times the amount risked by actual punters meaning that the 1.5% of turnover will exceed commissions collected.

In terms of the traditional books, it won't make too much difference but clearly punters/bettors are going to be worse off overall.

**brettels** · 04-05-12, 06:26 AM

This might explain it to you better than most places

Owner News & TROA Media Releases | TROA

http://www.troa.com.au/news/view/39_racingnswwinsbothracefieldslegislationcases

**jjgold** · 04-05-12, 06:29 AM

IS NSW a section of Australia that offers Aussie Horse Meetings??

**brettels** · 04-05-12, 06:31 AM

NSW is a state, New South Wales. Every state has horse and grey hound races every day (i think everyday).

**shari91** · 04-05-12, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

IS NSW a section of Australia that offers Aussie Horse Meetings??

Sydney is the capitol. Rosehill is one of the tracks you would've heard of.

**Hareeba!** · 04-05-12, 06:39 AM

It's a monumental disaster looming for punters with Betfair likely to withdraw their racing offering in NSW initially and then the other States if they follow suit with the "product fee". The TAB and particularly the breeders who dominate the decision making don't seem to realise the damage this is likely to do in terms of overall revenue to the industry.

And if the sporting bodies get into this too I can see Betfair just waving goodbye to Australia altogether.

A couple of excellent articles on the subject making points you just won't see in the regular media which is dominated by those employed by the TAB and its affiliated bodies:

http://www.puntingace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10903&sid=6e407fb2f936920e4e268122e8cea578

http://www.championpicks.com.au/blog/

**shari91** · 04-05-12, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

It's a monumental disaster looming for punters with Betfair likely to withdraw their racing offering in NSW initially and then the other States if they follow suit with the "product fee". The TAB and particularly the breeders who dominate the decision making don't seem to realise the damage this is likely to do in terms of overall revenue to the industry.

And if the sporting bodies get into this too I can see Betfair just waving goodbye to Australia altogether.

A couple of excellent articles on the subject making points you just won't see in the regular media which is dominated by those employed by the TAB and its affiliated bodies:

http://www.puntingace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10903&sid=6e407fb2f936920e4e268122e8cea578

http://www.championpicks.com.au/blog/

It's bloody awful. And yeah, racing is going to take a big hit if Betfair and other books start to pull out. Not sure how they can be so dense on this one.

Seeing that $5 billion mark and how much NRL contributes to it is quite astounding to me though. Maybe because that's the only Aussie sport I've never gotten into as a fan and especially not as a bettor but 25% of total turnover is crazy to me. Way more than I had expected.

**jjgold** · 04-05-12, 07:22 AM

The Betfair pools are minuscule for all Aussie Horse Racing compared to UK racing

They probably get an average of like 40,000 BP per race for the bigger Aussie Tracks in Victoria and maybe average 25,000 on other Aussie Flat meets

Dropping Aussie Racing would not dent Betfair

**shari91** · 04-05-12, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

The Betfair pools are minuscule for all Aussie Horse Racing compared to UK racing

They probably get an average of like 40,000 BP per race for the bigger Aussie Tracks in Victoria and maybe average 25,000 on other Aussie Flat meets

Dropping Aussie Racing would not dent Betfair

It's not about hurting Betfair although I'm sure the thought of paying out more cash in levies doesn't please them. If Betfair goes - which if Racing Victoria jumps into this and even worse other Aussie sports follow, they may as well - it's the bettor who gets screwed.

**Domestic** · 04-05-12, 07:46 AM

JJ do you sign up at every aussie book for "research" purposes or something?

**jjgold** · 04-05-12, 08:20 AM

Domestic I work for Walker

My job here is to know about every fukkin book in the world

I cannot play there but I do the research daily

**Domestic** · 04-05-12, 09:06 AM

Okay, I have noticed you have studied various Australian and UK books recently, keep up the hard work.

**singgooner** · 04-05-12, 10:41 AM

In England, these bandits have a f'ing nerve to charge you for depositing money into your sportingbet account.

No f'ing joke - so you are charged US$1.50 for putting money into a sportingbet account - so you
can lose that money with them !

Career suicide - I would like to know how much business has dipped.

Sportingbet dropped a bigger bollock than Ladbrokes - Ladbrokes a while back tried to trim down
dormant accounts by saying they will charge 25% of your bank if you did not used it for a
certain period of time.

So I withdrew all my money from my Ladbrokes account and left 3p - f u Ladbrokes !

**darkhat** · 04-05-12, 11:32 AM

Got a similar one from 5dimes..

To our undervalued 5dimes clients.
As you may be aware books like betislands, bookmaker, and rebatewager have proven to be superior to us. We may have some financial stability, but well... I guess those three also do and they treat you with respect. Disregard this memo.

Regards
Tony

**jjgold** · 04-05-12, 11:54 AM

Aussie books don't have the fees vs uk books

Asia books don't have the fees either

**Hareeba!** · 04-05-12, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

The Betfair pools are minuscule for all Aussie Horse Racing compared to UK racing

They probably get an average of like 40,000 BP per race for the bigger Aussie Tracks in Victoria and maybe average 25,000 on other Aussie Flat meets

Dropping Aussie Racing would not dent Betfair

You'd better smarten up your research if you want to keep that job.

Granted, Aust racing turnover doesn't compare with UK's but most every race every day, often even at even minor tracks sees the numbers you quoted exceeded in matched bets.

Every metropolitan Saturday race in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth would easily exceed 40K BP matched bets.

**jjgold** · 04-05-12, 02:32 PM

Hareeba average does not mean weekends only

I got screens in front of me at night

**Hareeba!** · 04-05-12, 02:43 PM

Betfair boycotts Golden Slipper day and NSW racing
Clinton Payne
Thursday, 5 April 2012

Betfair have made the decision to boycott promoting turnover on NSW racing following its appeal defeat last Friday regarding NSW race fields legislation in the High Court of Australia.
Seven High Court justices ruled Racing NSW has the right to charge corporate bookmakers and Betfair a 1.5 percent turnover based fee on money wagered by their clients on NSW races.
Betfair for the last six weeks have provided a two page formguide in the Daily Telegraph on Saturday’s promoting Australia’s biggest races during the autumn carnival.
This week, Betfair’s two-page offering will cover the Easter Cup meeting at Caulfield with no opinion on Australia’s biggest Group I meeting of the year at Rosehill.
"Our customers still have the choice if they wish to bet in NSW but from our business point of view it’s not really viable for us to be going out of our way to promote NSW racing,” Matt Thompson, Betfair's media and communications manager, said.
"If we’re in a position to promote one or a number of jurisdictions over NSW then that’s what we’ll do.
"It’s not a narky thing, it’s just a business decision."
Thompson also said Betfair is "strongly considering” closing down the offering of NSW racing to overseas customers of the international betting exchange.
"The one thing we are strongly considering is to switch off NSW racing to our overseas customers of which there is four million,” he said.
"It’s a segment that has never been profitable for us but there’s been an audience for NSW racing to exploit in terms of overseas revenue.
"It costs us money to run and we just can’t sustain it anymore.”

**Hareeba!** · 04-05-12, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

Hareeba average does not mean weekends only

I got screens in front of me at night

But this is what you said:
"They probably get an average of like 40,000 BP per race for the bigger Aussie Tracks in Victoria and maybe average 25,000 on other Aussie Flat meets"

Think you'd better dump those screens you've got in front of you before Walker dumps you.

Both numbers very well short of the mark.

Just looking back at yesterday's provincial (Thursday) meetings at Wyong (NSW) and Ballarat (Vic). Matched bets in AUD '000:
Wyong: 127, 86, 215, 150, 144, 166, 90, 102 (avg. 135)
Ballarat: 130, 165, 111, 122, 97, 121, 80, 86 (avg. 114)

Every single race in excess of your false numbers.

Saturday's city racing will utterly dwarf those numbers.

**jjgold** · 04-05-12, 03:11 PM

That's 2 tracks

I will follow this weekend

**Hareeba!** · 04-07-12, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

That's 2 tracks

I will follow this weekend

Well I hope you learned something from doing that?

Okay it was one of the biggest days of the year in Sydney today and they averaged $775K AUD matched per race.

Adelaide at Easter shunts its program off to Oakbank for a jumps racing carnival but still averaged $143K per race.

Brisbane $170K per race, Melbourne $432K and Perth $131K

I trust you will be revising your estimates after today?

**jjgold** · 04-07-12, 07:05 AM

Hareeba YES

Although do you know a 365 day average of money bet per race excluding Melbourne?

**Hareeba!** · 04-07-12, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by jjgold

Hareeba YES

Although do you know a 365 day average of money bet per race excluding Melbourne?

No. I don't.

There are thousands of race meetings throughout the country every year. Many of them are at remote bush venues and attract very little interest other than from the locals.

But the 5 mainland State capitals race almost every Saturday and Public Holiday as well as most weeks on Wednesdays.
Those meetings together with the provincial meetings every day of the week would significantly exceed the figures you quoted.

**jjgold** · 04-07-12, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

No. I don't.

There are thousands of race meetings throughout the country every year. Many of them are at remote bush venues and attract very little interest other than from the locals.

But the 5 mainland State capitals race almost every Saturday and Public Holiday as well as most weeks on Wednesdays.
Those meetings together with the provincial meetings every day of the week would significantly exceed the figures you quoted.

I am 1-9 vs you in book battles

**Hareeba!** · 04-07-12, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

I am 1-9 vs you in book battles

???

**Hareeba!** · 04-08-12, 03:02 PM

hardly unexpected, this looks like being the first casualty:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/superracing/betfair-says-live-betting-on-horse-racing-could-become-extinct-after-high-court-ruling/story-fn67v0c5-1226317797831

**shari91** · 04-08-12, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

hardly unexpected, this looks like being the first casualty:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/...-1226317797831

He was saying that you keep schooling him in Aussie Book things. Not a bad thing.

and we said Betfair would jump from NSW... not good

**jjgold** · 04-08-12, 03:33 PM

NSW is not the bulk of betfair money though as far as Aussie Racing

**Hareeba!** · 04-08-12, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by jjgold

NSW is not the bulk of betfair money though as far as Aussie Racing

It would account for a very sizable proportion though and be second only to Victoria's numbers. And currently Sydney's biggest carnival of the year is in progress and most of the best horses are there and their turnover would be running ahead of Victoria's as evidenced by the numbers I quoted from Saturday's racing.