Mateos vs Lodden: still one of my favorite hands

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Some serious levelling on this hand:

1) How in the hell does Mateos call that check raise w/ only two backdoor draws?

2) I think Lodden has to call turn when he picks up a gutshot. He has to be thinking river checks down and he wins some % of the time.

3) What about the Ace river? Does Mateos give any live tells?

If Mateos was holding an Ace that now tripped-up...I think he goes "All-in" sooner without the tank.

My question for Lodden is: *What river cards should he view as GOOD for him?

Surely an Ace has to be "good" against an opponent capable of bluffing. Turns Mateos' hand into 1) AAA or 2) bluff.

Only other "value hand" I can think of 2nd pair on an AA board. So, TT vs KK...and maybe 99 or 33.

[MovinUnits]

1.agreed, however the 10/J suited would tell me to “hold on” due to its delt strength potential. He also had Louden on a low pair.

2. Louden has him on a “ non Ace” hand. He’s more nervous about that 9 than anything else.
But he just calls after the flop?! He needs to go All In there or re raise or fold in my opinion.

3. The Ace on the river would have emphasized my theory ( if I were in his shoes) that he didn’t have an Ace already.

If Louden were to stick to his guns which was “this guy does not have an Ace”than the second Ace should have reenforced that belief in this spot for him.

And obviously a 5 or lower benefits Louden here other than another 3 .
Loudens last physical lean in to the table right before he folds is his last ditch effort in trying to get a tell, which he didn’t . In short, Louden talked himself out of it.

That’s my take on it the first watch of it.

My second time around. I think Matoes might have seen something from Louden earlier in the game that had Matoes believe he could bluff Louden in this spot. And I believe after Louden just calls the Matoes raise , Matoes knew Louden didn’t have an Ace either. … The bottom line is the best hand lost. This hand is a good one for a lot of reasons .

[thetrinity]

This is really dead if this is at the top being months ago.

The flop makes sense. Lodden figures the SB for a raggy ace or the 9 and doesn’t think Mateos would have flat called many aces preflop (3bet likely). The raise wasn’t so big and mateos had chips and lots of good turns and position. I don’t get the turn check call if he’s going to fold the ace river. I thought he was calling when I saw the river. Lodden should be calling on the river with his line a lot of the time, especially on that river.

[Ian]

I just saw this thread. I had no idea it was months old until I read thetrinity's post, lol.

Thoughts on the hand.
-Spanish announcers are awesome
-Tournament players tank way too much. This hand was over 11 minutes long. It's bad tv and sets a bad precedent for new poker players.
-Mateos was repping an A and kept the story going the whole way against a preflop raiser with a wide range.

IMO it's an interesting hand that would have been far more interesting if it was 3 minutes long.

[blankoblanco]

The flop makes sense. Lodden figures the SB for a raggy ace or the 9 and doesn’t think Mateos would have flat called many aces preflop (3bet likely). The raise wasn’t so big and mateos had chips and lots of good turns and position. I don’t get the turn check call if he’s going to fold the ace river. I thought he was calling when I saw the river. Lodden should be calling on the river with his line a lot of the time, especially on that river.

I agree with pretty much all of this

Especially the part where you have to be prepared to call an A river if you're check/calling the turn. Unless you miraculously hit your hand, it's basically the best river you can get

I assume there's a part of him that thinks he can maybe read the guy correctly when it matters, but vs. solid players that just usually isn't the case.

I know this happened years ago, but in 2020s poker, I really do think most solid players who are calling in Lodden's spot on the turn will also call on the river. It may seem like a crazy hero call at first glance, but the decision starts on the turn. Calling the river after that makes a lot of sense

[Auto Donk]

I agree with pretty much all of this

Especially the part where you have to be prepared to call an A river if you're check/calling the turn. Unless you miraculously hit your hand, it's basically the best river you can get

I assume there's a part of him that thinks he can maybe read the guy correctly when it matters, but vs. solid players that just usually isn't the case.

I know this happened years ago, but in 2020s poker, I really do think most solid players who are calling in Lodden's spot on the turn will also call on the river. It may seem like a crazy hero call at first glance, but the decision starts on the turn. Calling the river after that makes a lot of sense

agree with the sentiment of going the distance, ie, call on turn, you seem committed to calling when that ace hits the river, making it even more far less likely that mateos has an ace; but many of us who've played a lot of poker who make that call are heartbroken when the player shoving that river miraculously rolls over that third ace on the showdown, or even worse kk - 1010.... not sure if lodden explained his fold (was he afraid of the over pair, j9 or some shit like that, etc...... lastly, that huge river bet (shove) smells of a last barrell fired overbet steal attempt after mateos having missed his hand..... bottom line, bodden didn't have donk like stones to make the call.......

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Props on all the replies. Yes, this forum is dead. A few things:

1) There is also an English version of this. Negreanu was commentating, he mentions how this is a great hand.
2) There is a separate video where Lodden talks about his river decision. He actually mentions that he'd "call a Queen river" but NOT "call an Ace river." How is that sound thinking if you think this guy has any bluffs in his range?
3) The video screams out how Lodden doesn't believe him. But he can't find a Call. You're giving him credit for Trips+ by Folding.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Here is the English version.

10:00 Johnny explains his Fold. Says that he snap-calls a Queen on river.

But an Ace on river doesn't change anything. Pair would now be Trips. Giving him too much credit?

Props to Mateos. His read was perfect. Really think Mateos had Lodden on 22 or 55.