Bwin - unable to winthdraw winnings

**davidchong** · 02-12-13, 07:35 AM

if you not took the bonus u can withdrawl at any moment, you need to roll the winnings

**Ruifgalmeida** · 02-12-13, 07:37 AM

you need to do the rollover first, if you want to withdraw the original deposit you will problably lose your winnings

**sidders** · 02-12-13, 07:45 AM

what do you mean by the rollover?

**sidders** · 02-12-13, 07:54 AM

what do you mean by the rollover?

**rodneytrotter** · 02-12-13, 08:03 AM

As I recall it's 3xD&B before it's clear.

So after you have bet 120 in total (3xdeposit+bonus) at minimum odds of 1.70 you should be clear to withdraw if you want to.

**sidders** · 02-12-13, 08:30 AM

So with a deposit of £20, they give you £20 free bet, a total of £40. Are you supposed to win the rest of the rollover until you can withdraw. What are the chances of actually winning anything in the end !!
Bah what a scam.
None of this was stated before I signed up, not can I find it now!

**davidchong** · 02-12-13, 08:41 AM

then dont take bonus when you deposit

**pellumb341** · 02-12-13, 08:49 AM

you have to wager 120 EUR before you can withdraw your money.It's obvious you are new to online gambling , every book has these rules.

**horja1** · 02-12-13, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by sidders

Bah what a scam.
None of this was stated before I signed up, not can I find it now!

Did you read the terms&conditions for the bonus?

**teaz2win** · 02-12-13, 08:58 AM

You have to make sure many books deal with bonuses differently. Some books its just the bonus you roll. Some books its the bonus or the winnings from the bonus you must roll, and with some its the deposit + the bonus (or winnings) x the roll over. Need to do some homework before you take the bonus. Its not a gift they use it to keep you playing.

**rodneytrotter** · 02-12-13, 09:00 AM

Looks like it's been increased to 5x D&B

9. BONUSES

We may from time to time offer You complimentary or bonus amounts to be credited by Us into Your Account ('Bonus(es)'). Such Bonuses may only be used in relation to such Services as may be specified when the Bonus is offered to You. Acceptance of any Bonus shall be in accordance with additional Terms and Conditions We may make available to You in respect of each such Bonus offering and, if none, then in accordance with the Standard Promotional Terms and Conditions and bonus release restrictions contained in the relevant offer. Offers may be used only ONCE unless otherwise specified. You are not entitled to withdraw any Bonus amounts and You may not remove any cash obtained via a Bonus from Your Account without first complying with the applicable terms including, without limitation, in respect of any qualifiers or restrictions. With regard to the Sports betting Services, in addition to any further applicable terms, You may only withdraw any funds obtained via a Bonus from Your Account when You have wagered a sum equivalent to five times the Bonus amount and five times the deposit amount that led to the Bonus amount at odds of 1.7 or above.

-

**sidders** · 02-12-13, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by horja1

Did you read the terms&conditions for the bonus?

I had to agree to the T+C when I signed up. And to view the T+C's it said I needed to log in. Therefore not possible to view them before I agreed!! Check it out for yourself.

**teaz2win** · 02-12-13, 10:28 AM

For future reference always check on the hook with the bonuses. They are not gifts they are there to keep you playing. If you are looking to cash out quick take no bonus.

**horja1** · 02-12-13, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by sidders

I had to agree to the T+C when I signed up. And to view the T+C's it said I needed to log in. Therefore not possible to view them before I agreed!! Check it out for yourself.

I do not have an account with Bwin and yet I can see TC without any problem

8.1 In relation to some Promotions, certain release requirements or, where appropriate, cash out restrictions must be satisfied, in addition to the general eligibility criteria set out in these Standard Promotional Terms, before a bonus may be used, played with or, where appropriate, cashed out, or as a condition of being eligible for a prize or to compete in a competition, contest, league or tournament. Any such additional restrictions or requirements will be contained or referenced in the applicable Specific Promotional Terms. You may only withdraw any funds from Your Account obtained via a Bonus on our Sports Service when You have met the wagering restrictions associated with that Bonus offer. All Bonuses have to be wagered at odds of 1.70 or above.

**sidders** · 02-12-13, 04:31 PM

So basically are you saying I have to win £200, and then bet that £200, just to get a bonus of £20.
I can't see the point.
Where as if I'd not have the £20 promotional bonus I would just have the £200 winnings in cash to withdraw at any time.
That dosen't sound like a promotion or bonus to me. That sounds like crap.

Usually when I join a new betting website, if I bet £20 I then get £20 free bet. What I win I can withdraw. Simple.

horja1, I dont want to digress into a debate about the T+C's. As I understand it, what you quoted dosen't say what I have just written in the paragrah above. There was no indication of wagering restrictions.

**onemoregoal** · 02-12-13, 04:53 PM

The OP is correct here, you guys are being harsh and Euro books work differently from USA type ones with stupid roll over requirements.

From what I can tell, his £20 CASH bet was a winner = 160. Normally this is treated differently to the bonus balance. So he should have £160 in his cash balance to withdraw and £20 in bonus funds to roll over or whatever the hell he needs to do (who cares he just wants his cash bet winnings)
So real money balance = £160 and bonus balance should be £20
Why it isnt, Im not sure..
The complete amount deposited must be wagered at least once and the bonus at least 5 times on sports bets exclusively at bwin before a withdrawal is possible

The bonus should be just £20 - not £180

**pellumb341** · 02-12-13, 05:01 PM

I have played myself at bwin/gamebookers

You can withdraw your amount , after you have made a rollover of 120 EUR with odd above 1.70

**onemoregoal** · 02-12-13, 05:10 PM

Are you from UK betting in £s? Maybe its different, but if you are a UK player it seems their terms are different, as it says "open to uk customers only".

Bwin Free Bet Basics:
- only open to UK customers
- 50% match on deposits of £10-£40 (so max £20 free bet)
- wagering requirements deposit once and bonus five times

**pellumb341** · 02-12-13, 05:20 PM

No , i am not.Anyways , the OP must read the T&M .

**onemoregoal** · 02-12-13, 05:25 PM

Exactly you are not. Yet you still have a go at the OP claiming "you are obviously new to gambling..." I know everything...
Paddy power, sportingbet, blue square lots of others, you can claim your cash withdrawal at any time if you are a uk player.
BWIN are shit, though - maybe they are different.

**pellumb341** · 02-12-13, 05:37 PM

I claimed that cuz everyone know that at any book you must do the rollover before you can withdraw.didn't know that UK has no rollover at some books

the guy is writing " what do you mean by rollover" ... what does it mean to you ?

and you are right , bwin is shit

**onemoregoal** · 02-12-13, 05:58 PM

If you win with the BONUS, then yes they are roll over requirements. But even in UK many bonuses just have 1x rollover requirement and they give you the winnings and not the stake. Obviously not BWIN..

If you win with the cash you deposited like the OP claims he did, then no - normally you can withdraw that when you want. Otherwise the BONUS is not bonus, it becomes a negative. Maybe where you guys are playing that makes sense, but to the average UK player - people would be angry if they were forced into bets just to withdraw their own CASH.

This is why there is a cash balance and a bonus balance. The cash balance should be what he won from his initial cash bet of £20 +£140 winnings. The bonus balance is seperate (starts at £20) and the bonus only becomes cash balance when the roll over requirements are met.

This is from "Rodney Trotters" link above and it states clearly if money is won/"obtained" via a BONUS then they will have to be roll over - NOT IF WON BY CASH as the OP claims he did. Anyway, Im bored now - and I think either BWIN are dodgy compared to other sites who accept UK players, or the OP did not win with his cash and won with the bonus, in which case he would have to rollover.
You may only withdraw any funds from Your Account obtained via a Bonus on our Sports Service when You have met the wagering restrictions associated with that Bonus offer. All Bonuses have to be wagered at odds of 1.70 or above.

**horja1** · 02-13-13, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by onemoregoal

- wagering requirements deposit once and bonus five times

so the OP has to rollover 1x40 + 5x20 = 140 £

**teaz2win** · 02-13-13, 11:13 AM

why not ask CS at BWIN to explain it in writing on chat? Then you would know what you need to do for sure.

**onemoregoal** · 02-13-13, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by horja1

so the OP has to rollover 1x40 + 5x20 = 140 £

If he wants to withdraw money obtained from his bonus, yes. As stated in their terms.

It doesnt mention any restrictions to money obtained from winning from cash deposit.

Remember its a very small bonus, the only other UK book that has restrictions on withdrawing winnings from cash deposit, is bet 365 but it is clearly stated and their offer is for £200 much bigger - so more restrictions should be expected.
£20 bonus from bonus falls into the bracket of stan james, sportingbet, etc etc where you can withdraw your cash whenever you like.

Its possible if you "lose" the bonus, you are free to withdraw. But I doubt it.

**lukahh** · 02-13-13, 12:17 PM

how is bwin recently regarding odds quality? any good ones left, or all poor?

**sidders** · 02-15-13, 01:44 AM

When I signed up, the wording was £20 free bet. Nowhere was the word 'Bonus' used. So reading the general T+C's I would not link a £20 free bet to being a bonus. This was very unclear and misleading.

Here's an update.

So with my £20 CASH, I won £160, then Bwin gave me £20 free bet/bonus, totalling £200 in my account (Which I could not withdraw).
I have bet the whole £200 across 8 bets, and won 2 bets winning £130, which I can now withdraw!

Thanks for your clarification on this guys.
Bwin still have not responded to my communications after 5 days.
I'm staying well away from Bwin in future.

**Bleeth** · 02-15-13, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by lukahh

how is bwin recently regarding odds quality? any good ones left, or all poor?

Sure you can find some good odds on Bwin, but it's hard to take advantage of that when they are limiting almost everyone to 50-100 EUR bets (and that's probably far away from the worst case scenario)

**horja1** · 02-15-13, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by onemoregoal

Its possible if you "lose" the bonus, you are free to withdraw. But I doubt it.

no way ... once you have taken the bonus you have to complete the RO, regardless if you win or lose with your bonus money ... only if you lose all (bonus + deposit) you are free of any RO for that deposit