ToteSport gives player wager he did not place

[betpartners]

wow let me put my sunglasses on or i will get blinded by the sun that is shining out of your ass.

You obviously wrote that in some sort of temper tantrum and so i will make allowances for your ignorance.

Everything is a matter of opinion i get that, but when one expresses his opinion and at the very same time contradicts his own statements and bases his opinion on comments of the highest stupidity then they are nothing but a fool.

You obviously have that role down to a tee and the more you go on about unregulated books and try to even begin to compare them to the likes of ladbrokes, william hills, corals, betfair, tote and quite a few others then you become nothing but a laughing stock.

Not on here of course, on here it expected that the sheep will follow regardless of the facts.

Its such a classic attitude, we are the best because we are sbr, we are the kings of regulation and everything else is second rate, be subjected to our abitration or you are crap, do as we say or be damned.

or as you so beautifully articulate it, i have no arguement so your all crap.

I expected so much more of you, i thought you could put your bias to one side and have a proper calm mature debate, but no, you fall back on the same old arguement, euro books are crap and unregulated slow paying off shore books are king.

you accuse me of knowing nothing about offshore books and yet profess to know everything about euro books, how arrogant and presumptive, but based on the waffle you have put out so far what else did i expect.

5+ year history, lol, i come with 70 years of history and you come with 5 years.

Higher standard of conduct? boy i serached for your reasoning on that, sorry could not find it, oh sorry again, you said it was because they were unregulated as opposed to regulated books subject to the law.

Some things are just plain and clear and the fact is that you are biased, i doubt very much that you ahve anywhere the knowledge of euro books that you think you have and you base your opinion on a forum whos very purpose is to bring to light negative stories.

In europe we laugh our bollocks of at the so called a rated books on here that take so long to make pay outs, we laugh even more at the amount of people that get ripped off by these offshore books in comparison to euro books, just look at the amount of offshore books rated d or below and you have the cheek to call euro books crap

Is your overwhelming bitterness based on the fact that you cannot bet with euro books? just curious, you do seem fairly passionate about crap euro books.

You have no choice but to bet with these offshore books so you are in no position to compare, but does that stop you, of course not, arrogance and ignorance know no bounds,

You stick to your far superior 5 year old non regulated not subject to the law can go bust anytime offshore books mate and i will stick to books with 20 times more experience and far more trust that allow us avenues to seek action in the event things go wrong other than a forum

So much faith in a forum that cant even get its ratings right accoridng to some on here and i am not even talking about euro books on here, the amount of occasions i have read on here about certain books being A rated when they shouldnt and yet despite this sbr ratings are the bible to you when it suits you

inconsistency at best.

But like i say you stick to your superior books mate while i go risk my money at the euro crap.

[tomcowley]

wow let me put my sunglasses on or i will get blinded by the sun that is shining out of your ass.

You obviously wrote that in some sort of temper tantrum and so i will make allowances for your ignorance.

Everything is a matter of opinion i get that, but when one expresses his opinion and at the very same time contradicts his own statements and bases his opinion on comments of the highest stupidity then they are nothing but a fool.

Let's see where i contradicted myself... Oh, wait..

You obviously have that role down to a tee and the more you go on about unregulated books and try to even begin to compare them to the likes of ladbrokes, william hills, corals, betfair, tote and quite a few others then you become nothing but a laughing stock.

Look Mr. Sunshine Out Your Ass, what makes any euro book better than any of the 4 books I listed, plus Pinnacle? I'm really curious to know. Why are your books better?

Its such a classic attitude, we are the best because we are sbr, we are the kings of regulation and everything else is second rate, be subjected to our abitration or you are crap, do as we say or be damned.

Of course I'd rather have books that conform to SBR's standards than the eurocrap standards. SBR's standards are fairer for players. It's not close. I'm really curious to know- how are euro standards fairer for players than the way my 5 books do business?

I expected so much more of you, i thought you could put your bias to one side and have a proper calm mature debate, but no, you fall back on the same old arguement, euro books are crap and unregulated slow paying off shore books are king.

I don't remember a single slow-pay complaint in years about the books I listed. There may be one somewhere, but you're the one saying they slowpay, so dig up an actual complaint.

you accuse me of knowing nothing about offshore books and yet profess to know everything about euro books, how arrogant and presumptive, but based on the waffle you have put out so far what else did i expect.

I don't claim to know everything about euro books- I don't need to know everything. My books are financially sound. My books don't slowpay. My books don't screw with players, period. My books don't screw with wagers, period. Your books screw with wagers and players. What more do I need to know?

Higher standard of conduct? boy i serached for your reasoning on that, sorry could not find it, oh sorry again, you said it was because they were unregulated as opposed to regulated books subject to the law.

LOL, there's a quote function if you want to get it right. You really have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about when I say higher standard of conduct, do you?. It's sad that you can be so belligerent when you have no idea what you're talking about.

Some things are just plain and clear and the fact is that you are biased, i doubt very much that you ahve anywhere the knowledge of euro books that you think you have and you base your opinion on a forum whos very purpose is to bring to light negative stories.

So.. where are the negative stories on the books I listed. Where are the stories of them screwing players? Where are the stories of them changing wagers? I'm waiting...

In europe we laugh our bollocks of at the so called a rated books on here that take so long to make pay outs, we laugh even more at the amount of people that get ripped off by these offshore books in comparison to euro books, just look at the amount of offshore books rated d or below and you have the cheek to call euro books crap

None of the current A books have payment issues. I don't even remember any major payment issues with any of the US A books. Link to actual problems or just blowing sunshine out your ass again? Link to an A or A+ US-facing book ripping anybody off in, say, the past year? Past 2 years? Past 3 years? I'm waiting.... They're so bad, this should be easy.. I'm still waiting...

There are terrible offshores and there are terrible Euros- Betchance, Betway, Wauw, goldvictory. I'd take Jazette over those any day. Hell, I'd go try to beat SBG before I played at those trash books.

Is your overwhelming bitterness based on the fact that you cannot bet with euro books? just curious, you do seem fairly passionate about crap euro books.

You have no choice but to bet with these offshore books so you are in no position to compare, but does that stop you, of course not, arrogance and ignorance know no bounds,

LOL. Try again.

You stick to your far superior 5 year old non regulated not subject to the law can go bust anytime offshore books mate and i will stick to books with 20 times more experience and far more trust that allow us avenues to seek action in the event things go wrong other than a forum

The sad part is that you think your dispute resolution and financial situation is actually better in europe than it is with the best 5 offshores. Find ANYBODY on here who would take a case to IBAS (or, god forbid, LGA) over SBR if given the choice. Look for BetChance on here. Broke and no pay. Look at, I believe, PortlandBet. Broke and stealing. Betway- Stealing deposits because players came from a particular forum. Look at tote- robbing a player in an action that nobody agrees with. I will grant you that most euros have advantages over the worst offshores. They don't hold a candle to the good ones. If the balances are not guaranteed by the government, they're not inherently safer- and unless I've really missed some news, they're not guaranteed. Even a fully licensed and regulated US Horse site went bust with player balances.

So much faith in a forum that cant even get its ratings right accoridng to some on here and i am not even talking about euro books on here, the amount of occasions i have read on here about certain books being A rated when they shouldnt and yet despite this sbr ratings are the bible to you when it suits you

inconsistency at best.

Betonline is the only US book B- or higher that's clearly overrated. And even they wouldn't even think of pulling tote's stunt.

[betpartners]

wow again

you know what, because you say so then it must be right, what was i thinking argueing with the great tomcowley known for his impartiality.

all you ahve done is repeat and repeat and repeat the same old rubbish, boring now to be honest, your among friends preach to them, the rest of us know the real truth.

you pay your withdrawal fees, you wait god knows how long to receive your money, you stick to books only you and usa players think are great

I will stick with what the overwhelming majority think are the better books, betfair, hills, ladbrokes, corals and of course the tote as well as expekt and many others

oh and before you get deluded sbr is not the majority, the majority bet with the real big boys the billion pound turnover boys in europe.

and you never know one day you may be able to open a european account and then finally have a tiny clue and know what you are talking about

Until then i wish you luck in your blissfull ignorance or you could try visiting some european forums and trying this offshore books are better rubbish and see how long you last before you are laughed off the place.

doubt you will though, just dont seem like your the sort that would go into the enemy camp to state a point, you seem like the type that needs to be surrounded by the sheep agreeing with you, you need that audience,

but hey i could be wrong, what do i know, i am not the almighty tomcowley after all.

[pjesnik24]

maybe we should vote who won the debate?
or who had the better insults?

[Cyntax]

The player has been notified about this thread, he will post the whole story later.

[DearDiarrhee]

sorry but what's the difference between D+ and D- ?

[noyb]

Look at, I believe, PortlandBet.

While trying to make a persuasive argument try to make sure you have your facts right. First of all, Portlandbet was Australian, second of all, they didn't rob and steal. Because of the regulations you so dislike, clients funds were recovered in the end after the regulator intervened on behalf of the players.

I've played with eurobooks, US books, Asian books and Aussie books. They all have their drawbacks, but US books are definitely not lightyears ahead of the other three categories. For example, I dare say CS of a typical US book (even A+) is the worst of all the books out there. The average representative I have come across is rude, dumb and not at all interested in helping you in any way. Also, if you do not bet US sports there's very little else to bet there that the rest of the world isn't offering at better lines with higher limits and with more betting options. If you do bet US Sports, US books are obviously better then all others, but that's hardly a surprise

Why you would want Totesport downgraded to a D because of one slip up (which will no doubt be corrected by IBAS or the UK regulator) is beyond me. Even US A+-books slip up all the time and very often show A-unworthy behaviour without any consequences. The fact Tote isnt willing to talk to SBR, I can't blame them. SBR has a huge bias in rating in favour of US books compared to other books, and Euro bettors don't look at SBR ratings for opinions on Euro books because they are completely useless, so I doubt whether the Tote cares if they are an A or a Z overhere.

Anyway, I agree with you bad regulation can be worse then no regulation at all (look at Malta for example), but UK regulation is definitely not that bad (as I said, this case will be corrected in a later stage, these things take time but I'm 100% certain this bet will be made void).

Either way, if any region in this world is lightyears ahead of any other region in terms of player protection of funds and fair rules it's definitely the Aussie books and regulators, not the Euro-way of regulating things or the US-way of not regulating things.

[Santo]

And just to correct facts Portlandbet were Australian, didn't steal (did take a while to pay), and were backed by the Australian Government (well, a regional government - I believe ACT)

[tomcowley]

I'm aware portland bet was australian (are you going to tell me the US horse site wasn't euro too?), and the complaints received had them attempting to steal, blatantly, based on incomplete rollover. I never saw the book attempting to resolve those cases. All I was aware of was a bailout.

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sbr/portlandbet/

If that's horribly inaccurate, so be it.

[tomcowley]

Why you would want Totesport downgraded to a D because of one slip up (which will no doubt be corrected by IBAS or the UK regulator) is beyond me.

Because when the mistake is so patently ridiculous that no reasonable person could make it (and not instantly reverse it upon being notified), it's a strong indication that more problems are forthcoming. Books that do ridiculous things are more likely to do more ridiculous things in the future.

[tomcowley]

Oh, IBAS just threw out another giant lemon. It's amazing what happens when your mediators go "Is there any conceivable interpretation that favors the book, regardless of how little sense it makes and how unfair it is to the player?" "Yes." "Book wins." The players wins that complaint every time at a book that deals with SBR.

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/158347-how-did-should-sports-books-grade-khan-barrera-boxing-match.html

[Justin7]

I don't say this lightly.

Totesport screwed the player.

They didn't have a rule on point. No book I've heard of has ever changed a spread after the event.

If a book will cheat to steal from a player and not fix it, they are a trash book. This has nothing to do with Euro or American - it's simply a sportsbook cheating a player. When a book does that, it is trash.

[betpartners]

and your a moderator? no wonder europeans dont regard SBR as the bible that you think it is.

When you can stop being so biased with such inane comments from both members and now moderators then maybe and only maybe sbr will get more respect.

given up on tomcowley he is still talking crap even when he is shown to be wrong would have expected better from a moderator though, but alas such is the way on sbr

[durito]

and your a moderator? no wonder europeans dont regard SBR as the bible that you think it is.

When you can stop being so biased with such inane comments from both members and now moderators then maybe and only maybe sbr will get more respect.

given up on tomcowley he is still talking crap even when he is shown to be wrong would have expected better from a moderator though, but alas such is the way on sbr

lol

[tomcowley]

I may be wrong on the ultimate disposition of portlandbet, although they did clearly try to steal as they were going out. I stand by everything else I've said regarding offshores vs. euros. You repeat the same crap about slowpays, so.. find the most recent slowpay complaint about a current US-facing A book. Please. Find the most recent ONE. Meanwhile, tote and centre screw players in ways that simply don't happen in SBR land.

[Justin7]

and your a moderator? no wonder europeans dont regard SBR as the bible that you think it is.

When you can stop being so biased with such inane comments from both members and now moderators then maybe and only maybe sbr will get more respect.

given up on tomcowley he is still talking crap even when he is shown to be wrong would have expected better from a moderator though, but alas such is the way on sbr

Of all the moderators here, I probably side with the book more than any other. But regardless of my bias, forget rhetoric. Which of these statements did you disagree with:

1. Changing the spread after the event, changing a winning wager to a losing one is stealing from the player; or
2. Books that steal from players are trash?

Or do you agree with me?

[noyb]

find the most recent slowpay complaint about a current US-facing A book.

i don't think this is a big problem, altough this depends on your definition of slowpay (WSEX f.e. comes to mind, downgraded now but the real problems started well in their A-days).

but how exactly will this prove us books are somehow superior to euro books, the point which you were making.
much more interesting then that question is i can name dozens of euro/aussie/asia books that have not had a recent slow play complaint (or any other complaint for that matter) but are somehow not an A overhere. They're usually something average like a C (or very commonly not graded at all), which only goes to show SBR's bias to US books. Not that I blame them, as that's where the money for this site is coming from, but that doesn't mean it's useful to compare books with each other based on these biased grades as some (US) are paying and others (the rest) are not and this clearly shows.

[dealer wins]

Interesting thread.

The irony is that you could trust totesport with £50000+ (not that they would let you bet anywhere near that LOL), but they pull this below the belt trick.

I guess if bet really obvious bad lines you put yourself at the mercy of the "rulebook".

I have myself bet on obvious errors with tote several times but I limit my bet to £50 or so and when I place the bet I already have it in my head that worst case scenario I will get nothing back whatever happens. So far all the winning bets have been settled at the odds I placed. What I am trying to say is that as I knowingly am betting obvious errors, I am fully aware and accept that Tote could pull something like has happened to the OP and it would be fine with me.

Bet bad lines and bad things can happen, simple!!

[Santo]

The way they've dealt with this certainly wouldn't stop me betting with them, which is why I think the downgrade proposed earlier is nonsense. Maybe not an A-book because of this, but certainly nothing to put the honest players off using them.

The Centrebet case (CB are, incidentally, an Aussie book merely operating a small division in the UK) is more troubling, but even there I can see a certain justification for their actions / the IBAS ruling in lieu of it being proven that they have settled in a different way in the past.

[betpartners]

justin7 if you read all my comments you will see what i ahve already said in relation to that, no point repeating it over and over again.

My issue as i stated in my very first post was calling the tote euro trash for the sake of it.

This site is biased to usa books and more and more posters are coming on here saying that, what you constitute as trash is very different to what a european would.

as an example i find it trashy behaviour to charge for withdrawals, to me that is theft dressed up as admin fees or whatever, european books by and large have free withdrawals, to a european if a book charges withdreawal fees they simply cannot be rated A

but to an American that is acceptable.

some on here think a book without a license is nothing to worry about, to europeans any book without a license is dodgy.

So we have different perspectives, which is fine but europeans do use this site like myself and you cannot blame us for pulling you up when you make such comments on books that europeans know are excellent and deserve the highets rating.

either sbr gets fair with its ratings and treats european books on a level playing field or they should not rate european books by american standards.

most european websites that rate books dont bother with usa facing books, they dont use them, they have no experience of them, but this site does not care about that, they just rate european books from an american perspective. when americans cant even use them lol

From a european perspective if you charge ridiculous fees to withdraw your own money then i do not think a single american book rated A here would get a high rating in europe, is that fair? i dont know, but what i do know is that on this site that is not an important criteria and therefore that from get go makes the biased ratings flawed.

and thats just one example.

If someone said bwin are trash or some others then you will find a lot of europeans that would agree, when you say the tote that just shows us that you really do not know that much about european books, because if you did then you would not say that.

i know you will fall back on this one single case all the time to justify your comments re the tote, but its not been resolved by all accounts, we dont know both sides of the story and from a european point of view anyone taking such a bet knowing full well that there is an error is playing with fire anyway.

Americans dont see it that way, they see it that it is on the bookie 100% of the time, and that the player carries no responosibilty whatsoever.

were not talking witholding players money or anything like that, we are talking about a player that basically took the piss, got caught and then whines about it.

That said, any book and not just the tote should be fair and if the tote in this instance is not fair then they deserve to be pulled up about it, same applies to any book anywhere in the world.

But talking blindly based on one case calling the tote trash again just shows that you do not know that much at all about euro books and if that is the case you have no place rating them.

Have a fair criteria and stop rating books A that charge withdrawal fees, have no license and get a european rater on board as well so at the very least you have some sort of idea what european books really are.

while ever these unfair ratings are used there will be some on here that swear by them and actually think that they are far superior than anything anywhere else and that does an injustice to your readers from europe.

I would say that the vast majority of european users would rate, ladbrokes, w hills, betfair, tote, corals A+ that is simply not reflected on here and makes the ratings flawed, not my opinion but i expect the opinion of most europeans that know their sportsbooks

Your ratings are biased to USA facing books, the criteria set suits them and more and more people on here know this to be true, its a shame that sbr cannot encompass european and asians on this forum better.

[tomcowley]

Yeah, WSEX got punted for slowpays. So did Bodog, although they're back to normal based on reports here. There could well be good and ungraded euro books, and I know the coverage of asian books here may as well not exist. I wouldn't call those ratings and omissions an intentional bias, although they have issues and omissions. It's possible that there are euro books out there that are essentially perfectly reliable. The ones listed so far are inferior for a pro, assuming sport neutrailty- obviosuly nobody trying to bet soccer is going to use bookmaker as a primary out- lots of them cut to tiny limits a lot faster, while you can play most stuff at Pinny/greek/bm/matchbook forever, expekt has its wacky freeroll approval method, etc. I'd still prefer a book that has demonstrated acceptance of SBR's principles to one who only works with IBAS or other junk, but that doesn't much matter if the book is really good to begin with. When you're talking tote or centre though, they're not close.

[durito]

I find it lame to limit a player to $5 after winning just a handful of bets, but that's standard practice at nearly every Euro book I've ever played at.

The main reason SBR can't accurately rate Euro books is that many of them won't even talk to SBR when a dispute arises. Makes it kind of difficult.

[betpartners]

that is the crux of this tomcowley, you use sbr principles as your criteria which is fine and because it is mainly about USA books.

sbr cannot be relied upon at this stage to judge euro books at all and that is a flaw that undermines their whole rating system.

the only way to erase this flaw is either judge euro books fairly on a european criteria or remove them.

until such a time the ratings will remained flawed.

[tomcowley]

Every value judgment is a matter of perspective. If you don't think books that steal from players are trash, you're entitled to that opinion, but nobody around here is going to take you seriously. Sorry.

SBR fair-play principles are fairer for players than IBAS or LGA "principles", and you won't find anybody with a pulse to contradict that. You're entitled to disagree with that opinion too, but nobody will take you seriously on that either. Sorry.

[durito]

I would say that the vast majority of european users would rate, ladbrokes, w hills, betfair, tote, corals A+ that is simply not reflected on here and makes the ratings flawed, not my opinion but i expect the opinion of most europeans that know their sportsbooks

The vast majority of USA users used to think Sportsbook.com was an A+ even after they'd stolen millions. What the masses think is mostly irrelevant.

Ladbrokes, and betfair are rated A+ by SBR. Will hill is rated A, Corral is rated A-, tote is rated B-. It's not like the books you listed are all rated D when they should be A. They are all rated near the top.

[betpartners]

$5 limit on nearly all euro books Durito, me thinks not

use betfair mate no limit ever no matter what and loads of european books wont limit you that low ever, soem do though i agree but then so do american books,

Cant remember which one, but i got limited 2 years ago after winning on football (soccer) closed the account and moved on until i found they stuffed me on withdrawal fees went back and had a go and was told it is standard practise.

who the bloody hell as it? 5dimes springs to mind, though may have been another one, point is that limiting is not just a european thing, its worldwide and there are european books that wont limit you like you say.

european books would talk to sbr if they were treated right and if sbr had a european person dealing with them,

they will not deal with someone that comes at them with a negative attitude from word go and that thinks in terms of american betting without thinking about the intricaies of european betting

horses for course are required.

[durito]

So they have to hire someone from Europe to communicate with them? Justin isn't good enough? He's pretty damn fair if you ask me.

Yes, many books limit all over the world, but my experience with Euro books has been much faster. There's nothing wrong with that, it's their business decision.

[Santo]

This is a discussion we've had many times before, and I think eventually SBR will expand to have somebody dealing with European books -- but it's a two way street.

SBR need to invest in Europe to get enough European punters reading the site and using the forum for it to be worth books listening to them, as if nobody (or very few) in Europe hear about it, books don't care what SBR says about them.

SBR's power offshore exists because books know if SBR are negative about them, it will harm their business. No such risk exists in Europe.

Even if that's done, and in response to Durito (edit), whilst I'm sure Justin could talk to them, having somebody with more experience in markets like Horse Racing, Boxing, Soccer etc would likely be more successful than people who's expertise is in US sport markets.

[betpartners]

Every value judgment is a matter of perspective. If you don't think books that steal from players are trash, you're entitled to that opinion, but nobody around here is going to take you seriously. Sorry.

SBR fair-play principles are fairer for players than IBAS or LGA "principles", and you won't find anybody with a pulse to contradict that. You're entitled to disagree with that opinion too, but nobody will take you seriously on that either. Sorry.

Matter of opinion towcowley, i reckon even less that understand european sportsbooks will take you seriously calling the tote trash.

Same applies to IBAS and sbr most europeans or UK users wont take you seriously for your comments on that subject, espcially when UK books and most european books speak with IBAS and not sbr

so who takes who seriously is just your opinion, for my part based on your comments and lack of knowledge on european books i cannot take you seriously at all, sorry

But the LGA i have no issue there, i would not recommend them either.

And unlike you tomcowley i will always refrain from talking about stuff i have no idea about, try it mate and then your words may carry much more weight

also try using other words than euro and trash in every sentence,

just some friendly pointers mate

[betpartners]

This is a discussion we've had many times before, and I think eventually SBR will expand to have somebody dealing with European books -- but it's a two way street.

SBR need to invest in Europe to get enough European punters reading the site and using the forum for it to be worth books listening to them, as if nobody (or very few) in Europe hear about it, books don't care what SBR says about them.

SBR's power offshore exists because books know if SBR are negative about them, it will harm their business. No such risk exists in Europe.

Even if that's done, and in response to Durito (edit), whilst I'm sure Justin could talk to them, having somebody with more experience in markets like Horse Racing, Boxing, Soccer etc would likely be more successful than people who's expertise is in US sport markets.

i agree entirely with this

[durito]

This is a discussion we've had many times before, and I think eventually SBR will expand to have somebody dealing with European books -- but it's a two way street.

SBR need to invest in Europe to get enough European punters reading the site and using the forum for it to be worth books listening to them, as if nobody (or very few) in Europe hear about it, books don't care what SBR says about them.

SBR's power offshore exists because books know if SBR are negative about them, it will harm their business. No such risk exists in Europe.

Even if that's done, and in response to Durito (edit), whilst I'm sure Justin could talk to them, having somebody with more experience in markets like Horse Racing, Boxing, Soccer etc would likely be more successful than people who's expertise is in US sport markets.

Sure. It's not like I'm suggesting SBR ratings are great for Europe, they certainly aren't, even in my limited experience with euro sports. They also have their issues for the USA facing books.

But, when betpartners says this

sbr cannot be relied upon at this stage to judge euro books at all and that is a flaw that undermines their whole rating system.

i have to laugh a bit.

[losturmarbles]

tomcowley its all relevant to this discussion how one reacts to part of the story with such comments and trying to put me on the spot by asking me to say yes or no to a set of assumptions just masks that.

But i will play along

If i get your question right and in the scenario you provide a player takes a clearly wrong line and the bookies then corrects that line without asking the players permission?

Is that what you want me to say yes or no to?

Bookie is right only if its in the terms and conditions that they are allowed to do that, if it is not covered then they are not.

Bookies should always offer the player the option to take the bet at the correct line or void if it is not covered by a rule.

What are the rules in this case? did the bookies offer the player that opportunity, did the bookies even have to?

I doubt very much that IBAS would rule against a player if this was not covered by rules.

Now back to what we were discussing

Amercians may well have a low opinions of laws and i am not sure Europeans have any higher opinions but that misses the point, you really need to understand how the British sytem works.

The Tote is different to Ladbrokes, Corals and William Hills, MPs in England would love nothing more than to have a pop at the Tote because they are government owned, the tote gets away with a lot less than any of the A rated European books on here.

Thpugh i do agree that is no gauarntee off honesty, but the Tote is reknowned as a honest trustworthy book and you will find very few people that know of the Tote in Europe that will have a bad word to say about them

They are above reproach and are a book that can be trusted 100% to say otherwise is i am sorry to say wrong

To pick on one case that they may not even be wrong in and to call them euro trash and that they should be D rated as i ahve said just undermines all your other arguements

You cannot try to opine about one part in a mature manner but talk trash in another and not expect one to ahve an impact on the other.

the terms and agreements are irrelevant to the issue.

if totesport, in accordance of their "terms and agreements", retains the right to change a spread on a past event wager in order to change it from winning to losing, then they are just endorsing scam tactics through TOS.

[tomcowley]

Same applies to IBAS and sbr most europeans or UK users wont take you seriously for your comments on that subject, espcially when UK books and most european books speak with IBAS and not sbr

That's entirely due to player ignorance and books serving self-interest. Ask any player who's dealt with both who they'd prefer to be able to use.

[betpartners]

the terms and agreements are irrelevant to the issue.

if totesport, in accordance of their "terms and agreements", retains the right to change a spread on a past event wager in order to change it from winning to losing, then they are just endorsing scam tactics through TOS.

LOL and some thought some of what i said was funny

[betpartners]

That's entirely due to player ignorance and books serving self-interest. Ask any player who's dealt with both who they'd prefer to be able to use.

Players ignorance?

okie dokie