Pinnacle grades bad line as winner. I ask them to remove winnings from my account.

**Optional** · 05-01-15, 09:15 PM

Good to see your honesty.

Are you posting this as they won't take the money back?

**aylos84** · 05-01-15, 10:11 PM

Let me preface this by saying I have a good relationship with Pinnacle and although I am embarrassing them a little in this situation that is not my intention. The most profitable thing for me would be to say nothing and continue to bet into bad lines and profit from it. I have notified them of a potentially major floor in their trading that I could have potentially greatly profited from and that they now can fix.

These in play markets move so fast and price changes happen so quickly betting into bad lines by myself will happen often as a reflex. The 2 seconds it would take for my brain to process whether a line is "bad" or not might mean in "non bad" situations people getting bets in ahead of me. So if Pinny/ CRIS think I am taking shots at them this is simply not the case. And if people are using software to make calculations/ bets these programs will not be able to tell if a line is "bad" or not they will simply bet for value.

I hoped that despite my initial email Pinnacle would have paid me and learned from their mistake. What happened was after the 1h ended the bets were changed from pending to cancelled. I do not agree with this decision because with 5:20 to go during the 2nd quarter Brooklyn pulled within 40-37 and at that point there was a very good chance my wager would have lost. Regardless of the score they cannot leave a bet pending and then cancel if after the half has ended knowing the result. If it would have lost absolutely no chance I would have got my money.Pinnacle simply needs to give me my 8k back, and learn from their mistake

On a larger note the reason I made this post, and others is to highlight poor trading in increasingly important in play markets both for and against the player. What I would like to see from Pinnacle/ CRIS/ other reputable books are a clear set of guidelines that everybody follows e.g.

1) Locking an account after a bet is cancelled so I have to click a confirm button knowing what has happened before I can make another wager.

2) Automated emails sent instantly by email after a wager is cancelled. (pinnacle already does this).

3) The software showing some kind of alert or flashing message when a wager is cancelled.

And again Pinnacle, please give me my 8k back. I have another 10k winner cancelled by CRIS 6 days ago that I only noticed today because no email/ message was sent to me. I will post about this later.

The current uncertainty is resulting in situations where players feel like they are being freeroled when bets are cancelled. Books freerolling themselves when they dubiously cancel bets and then change their mind and payout. All this is no good for players and books alike.

**Stallion** · 05-01-15, 10:14 PM

Take the $$$$ and run

**capone1899** · 05-01-15, 10:26 PM

So confused. Can't tell if he won $8k and wants to give it back or they canceled the bet and he wants his $8k

**aylos84** · 05-01-15, 10:26 PM

Both

**Optional** · 05-01-15, 10:46 PM

Whilst I agree with you about the efforts books should make to alert people of cancelled bets Aylos, I have read your first two posts twice and am also confused about the 8k part.

It sounds like you realized your 8k in bets were a bad line and after being paid winnings you emailed to say they should not have been graded as winners?

Pinny then cancelled your bets?

And now you want them to reverse that decision?

**aylos84** · 05-01-15, 11:01 PM

Actually the bets were never graded winners they just remained pending until the 1h was over. But when pinny cancels bets they do it instantly and an email is sent immediately.

So when I sent that email to pinny the correct decision on their part would be to say thanks for notifying us of an error by a trader. However given our standard policy of cancelling bets immediately we have no right to cancel these bets after the 1h is over and all bets are winners.

From my point of view I was shocked after I made the bets to see them still pending 5 minutes later and once they were a bet is a bet, especially after Brooklyn made a run and cut it to 3. At that point if the bets were losers I would have chalked them up as a loss.

I am just highlighting multiple errors made by pinnacle here.

1) A 5 point bad line by a trader (no big deal can happen)

2) Failure by pinnacle to promptly cancel the bets when we know they have the systems in place to get this done within seconds. (huge huge huge error on their part)

3) Cancelling the bets after I emailed them asking them to. If somebody had properly looked at what happened here, given Pinnacle's policy of instantly cancelling bets on bad lines, they simply have no right to cancel any wager more than 2 minutes after it has been made (Unless it's something totally ridiculous like a total of 2005 when it should be 205 or a point spread of 70.5 when it should be 7.5)

**Optional** · 05-02-15, 12:31 AM

Ok gotcha now.

Whilst Pinny does set a high standard when it comes to management of live markets, I think it's a bit tough to call not cancelling an error within minutes a 'huge huge error'. They still retain the right to make the adjustment at whatever time the error is found (within reason). You can't really know they only cancelled due to your email if the market had not been settled btw. They may have been assessing what to do anyway.

If Atlanta covered the 6.5 I guess you might have grounds for asking it to be paid a winner. Other than that though... I think you made the right call in your first email. It should have been voided.

I'm not sure why you would think they would not have voided your bet if it had lost. You sound very experienced with them and should know that isn't what happens there. If it's an obvious error the entire market just about always gets voided, winners and losers.

One last thing. I agree that it can be easy to just take a good number before realizing it is a bad line. Done the same myself more than once. But whether it is just you being quick on the draw or not, take enough bad lines and nothing you say is going to stop most books treating you like a shot taker.

**Domestic** · 05-02-15, 07:24 AM

Have to admit that since Pinnacle began offering live betting on the nba throughout the entire game (not just time outs) I have noticed that you can get some very favorable lines, the software is sometimes a few seconds too slow to update and there can be as much as a 3-4 point difference in game total lines between them and say bet365 for example.

**Stockdale** · 05-02-15, 07:48 AM

Lol my god you're a toss. You back a bad line and then email them asking them to cancel the bets and take their money back, but then when they do you kick up a stink that they did. Wtf is wrong with you?

Im sure one of 2 things happened here, either

a) You backed a bad line then sent off this letter with the intention of hoping that they would be more likely to let you keep it settled as a winner on your account if you are "being honest" with them about the situation. Or

b) You backed a bad line and then the tide turned in the match to make this not such a good bet so you tried to email them to get your cash back

Trying to paint yourself as the good guy when your intentions are clearly self serving is so annoying

**aylos84** · 05-02-15, 07:49 AM

This is an example of extremely poor trading by CRIS on a screenshot taken from my PC. The timeout ended at 6:39 and we now are at 6:22 as well as the time taken for the foul and the miss free throw and CRIS still has their prices up.

What on earth is CRIS doing leaving prices up probably 45 seconds after a timeout has ended. It really looks like they are trying to get past posted then take shots at players. If you want to take $10k/$5k/$5k with 6:22 left in the 3rd quarter please ensure you have the necessary software/ staffing solutions in place to ensure games get taken down on time. You have absolutely no right to void any wager made in this circumstance.

**tomallen123** · 05-02-15, 08:12 AM

Why do you keep making these bets?

**aylos84** · 05-02-15, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Stockdale

Trying to paint yourself as the good guy when your intentions are clearly self serving is so annoying

I'm sure these books have owners who don't want to see money flying out the door through poor/ slack trading and in this thread I've given the owners of pinnacle/ cris a big heads up as to significant trading errors within their operations. Whether they decide to use this information or not is down to their own intelligence/ how much they value money.

I'm giving them a 2 day grace period until the conference semifinals begin to sort their shit out and get their house in order because after that I'm going back to past posting and seeking every advantage possible. That as a bettor is my job.

If I was running a book offering in play making sure that prices are taken down at the end of timeouts would be the #1 priority for any trader. I would never cancel any wager taken after a timeout because "in play" wagering is just that. And if the trader is too preoccupied by the risk management side to notice the games have started then I would pay a local trader to assist and make sure this is done. Taking 10/5/5 and having games up 45 seconds after timeouts have ended is amateur/ bush league.

**DR225** · 05-02-15, 08:31 AM

lol two day grace period...Get over yourself. Go back to taking shots and then crying when they don't pay you.

**Smithers** · 05-02-15, 08:43 AM

What is the program/website for the NBA ticker in your screenshot on the right side? Looks pretty nice.

**drjohn** · 05-02-15, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Stockdale

Trying to paint yourself as the good guy when your intentions are clearly self serving is so annoying

perfectly sums up this thread ...

**Stockdale** · 05-02-15, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by aylos84

I'm sure these books have owners who don't want to see money flying out the door through poor/ slack trading and in this thread I've given the owners of pinnacle/ cris a big heads up as to significant trading errors within their operations. Whether they decide to use this information or not is down to their own intelligence/ how much they value money.

I'm giving them a 2 day grace period until the conference semifinals begin to sort their shit out and get their house in order because after that I'm going back to past posting and seeking every advantage possible. That as a bettor is my job.

If I was running a book offering in play making sure that prices are taken down at the end of timeouts would be the #1 priority for any trader. I would never cancel any wager taken after a timeout because "in play" wagering is just that. And if the trader is too preoccupied by the risk management side to notice the games have started then I would pay a local trader to assist and make sure this is done. Taking 10/5/5 and having games up 45 seconds after timeouts have ended is amateur/ bush league.

You just proved my point. You actually have no moral problem with taking shots at them and benefiting from it. Your asking them to keep the winnings was so clearly a self serving ploy to try to actually get something out of them.

Then you try to come here and paint yourself as the martyr

**dealer wins** · 05-02-15, 11:44 AM

See OP!! those on here arnt as stupid as you think are they lol

**Bandito97** · 05-02-15, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Stockdale

Trying to paint yourself as the good guy when your intentions are clearly self serving is so annoying

Exactly

**krk1030** · 05-02-15, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Stockdale

Lol my god you're a toss. You back a bad line and then email them asking them to cancel the bets and take their money back, but then when they do you kick up a stink that they did. Wtf is wrong with you?

Im sure one of 2 things happened here, either

a) You backed a bad line then sent off this letter with the intention of hoping that they would be more likely to let you keep it settled as a winner on your account if you are "being honest" with them about the situation. Or

b) You backed a bad line and then the tide turned in the match to make this not such a good bet so you tried to email them to get your cash back

Trying to paint yourself as the good guy when your intentions are clearly self serving is so annoying

I bet the email was sent once brooklyn cut it to 3.