Lay betting and betting exchanges?

[MaddyMax]

I am seriously considering taking the discount offer from bettingresource.com for sbr/covers/therx members. But from here I cannot use betting exchanges since none operate in north america.

Would i lose any edge or value if i simply bet the opposite side in pinnacle or 5dimes instead of using the lay option in betting exchanges like betfair?

[MaddyMax]

Anyone know why betting exchanges are illegal in canada? online betting is legal and all the popular online books operate in canada but all the exchanges pulled out.

[Foxx]

Anyone know why betting exchanges are illegal in canada? online betting is legal and all the popular online books operate in canada but all the exchanges pulled out.

Why Betfair pulled out of Canada was a bit of a mystery as they never released a statement why. However, it may have had something to do with the merger with Paddy Power as they announced the pull out not too long after the merger happen. Another possibility was it a was a reaction to an Ontario bill that was passed that had to do with government mandated website blocking by service providers. That was passed mid November 2015 and the Canada announcement came December that year.

[Optional]

Have a look at Fairlay.com MaddyMax

[MaddyMax]

Have a look at Fairlay.com MaddyMax

will do, thanks for this opt!

[littlekona]

I have been using fairlay for lay wagers on UK horse racing and it has the best odds I have found and they have the fastest btc withdrawl payouts of any site literally instant...

[MaddyMax]

Guys, I just looked around fairlay.com and it looks shady as heck. Optional, can you vouch for this place as a moderator? Also, I never got around to learn how Bitcoin works...is that the only option there?

[Optional]

Guys, I just looked around fairlay.com and it looks shady as heck. Optional, can you vouch for this place as a moderator? Also, I never got around to learn how Bitcoin works...is that the only option there?

Can't vouch for it personally but it has been around long enough, and had enough positive feedback, that I wouldn't let the looks put you off.

And yes, it's bitcoin only.

[littlekona]

Guys, I just looked around fairlay.com and it looks shady as heck. Optional, can you vouch for this place as a moderator? Also, I never got around to learn how Bitcoin works...is that the only option there?

What gives you the impression it is "shady as Hell" From your post you don't understand bitcoin so the better statement would of been that "Bitcoin looks shady as Hell" which if you dont understand it and dont do some research is a fair statement..But on Fairlay I have not heard one bad review plus I have been using them quite a bit 20-30 wagers a day average they have the best odds of any book and have no issues except tiny things they can improve like most books do. The withdrawals could not be any faster literally seconds they process and hit your wallet. So what is "shady"???

[MaddyMax]

What gives you the impression it is "shady as Hell" From your post you don't understand bitcoin so the better statement would of been that "Bitcoin looks shady as Hell" which if you dont understand it and dont do some research is a fair statement..But on Fairlay I have not heard one bad review plus I have been using them quite a bit 20-30 wagers a day average they have the best odds of any book and have no issues except tiny things they can improve like most books do. The withdrawals could not be any faster literally seconds they process and hit your wallet. So what is "shady"???

1. All the legit books have their license info in their home page. I don't see anything about the license in fairlay's home page.
2. I did a whois search for their domain and their domain info is not public. They are hiding the registration info and that is another red flag when it comes to a book.

So basically its an unlicensed illegal book/exchange.

[Optional]

Sounds like offshore books aren't for you Maddy.

[Hareeba!]

Sounds like offshore books aren't for you Maddy.

Seems a reasonable concern if they can't tell you who or where they are and who regulates them?

[MaddyMax]

Sounds like offshore books aren't for you Maddy.

All legit offshore books show their license info and they don't hide their domain registration. I have been with pinnacle for years with no problem.

Even the books that break the rules in usa by taking americans show their info and license.


See, its not a problem if one is a losing bettor who never makes withdrawals. I grind and win long term so legitimacy of the book important to me.

Fairlay is not even listed in SBR's rating guide. You admitted that you personally won't vouch for fairlay.

[Optional]

Seems a reasonable concern if they can't tell you who or where they are and who regulates them?

If that is a concern, then I'd still say offshore books are not for that person.

I can't think of any book in CR or Panama etc that has ever deferred to any regulator.

[littlekona]

All legit offshore books show their license info and they don't hide their domain registration. I have been with pinnacle for years with no problem.

Even the books that break the rules in usa by taking americans show their info and license.


See, its not a problem if one is a losing bettor who never makes withdrawals. I grind and win long term so legitimacy of the book important to me.

Fairlay is not even listed in SBR's rating guide. You admitted that you personally won't vouch for fairlay.

Ive withdrawn every day sometimes multiple times for last 8 days and every one has hit my btc wallet before I could click over to it....it's truly instant...I've used many btc books plus standard ones that convert like heritage and I think that fairlay is an essential exchange to have in your repertoire....maybe raiders can add info as he knows btc books better then anyone here..

[SportsMushroom]

All legit offshore books show their license info and they don't hide their domain registration. I have been with pinnacle for years with no problem.

Even the books that break the rules in usa by taking americans show their info and license.


See, its not a problem if one is a losing bettor who never makes withdrawals. I grind and win long term so legitimacy of the book important to me.

Fairlay is not even listed in SBR's rating guide. You admitted that you personally won't vouch for fairlay.

characterizing as legit, a book that operates in jurisdictions it does not have permission to do so is an oxymoron

using pinnacle here as an example is completely misleading, you cant put pinnacle and other offshores under the same umbrella

pinnacle operates only in jurisdictions it is legal to do so, while books like 5dimes, heritage and fairlay break the law

so it doesn't matter if they have a license

if their licence is not valid in your jurisdiction, then they might as well not have one, it is purely cosmetic and is there to provide you with a false sense of security


what im trying to say is, if license is important to you, you should not play at illegal books at all, because as already mentioned, their license is purely cosmetic

and as far as ownership goes, that doesnt make sense, i doubt any of the offshore books let you know who their owner is, not even pinnacle does that

and that's just more proof that they are not regulated, books with proper licences e.g. from uk are obligated to reveal ownership

[Alfa1234]

using pinnacle here as an example is completely misleading, you cant put pinnacle and other offshores under the same umbrella

pinnacle operates only in jurisdictions it is legal to do so, while books like 5dimes, heritage and fairlay break the law

This is simply not true. Pinnacle operates or accepts clients from many countries where do they not have a license and where it's illegal for them to do so.

[SportsMushroom]

This is simply not true. Pinnacle operates or accepts clients from many countries where do they not have a license and where it's illegal for them to do so.

you could be right, I cant be 100% certain, but when you tell someone they are wrong, you need to provide the relevant evidence to support your claim

if you dont want to do so then its better if you dont post anything

[Alfa1234]

There are several reasons why.

First one is they accept clients from some European countries like e.g. Greece where you need a local license, which they do not have. 2nd is they accept bets through the Mollybet, Vodds, ET3 etc platforms from clients all over the world, including the US.

[MaddyMax]

characterizing as legit, a book that operates in jurisdictions it does not have permission to do so is an oxymoron

using pinnacle here as an example is completely misleading, you cant put pinnacle and other offshores under the same umbrella

pinnacle operates only in jurisdictions it is legal to do so, while books like 5dimes, heritage and fairlay break the law

so it doesn't matter if they have a license

if their licence is not valid in your jurisdiction, then they might as well not have one, it is purely cosmetic and is there to provide you with a false sense of security


what im trying to say is, if license is important to you, you should not play at illegal books at all, because as already mentioned, their license is purely cosmetic

and as far as ownership goes, that doesnt make sense, i doubt any of the offshore books let you know who their owner is, not even pinnacle does that

and that's just more proof that they are not regulated, books with proper licences e.g. from uk are obligated to reveal ownership

I don't play at any illegal books. I was looking for an exchange to deposit over 10k bankroll. I would never deposit big amounts in books tha takes americans. Pinnalcle has most of my bankroll. I use 5dimes but i always maintain under 2.5k balance there and use it only for small bets. I don;t use bookmaker, i use betcris instead as additional book. These are all offshore books and are legit. 5dimes is legit but they break some rules when it comes to taking american bettors.
Betcris is smart. They created bookmaker as a seperate entity to take americans so that in case they get screwed by the government their rest of the world clients are still fine at betcris.
I wouldn't mind depositing small bankroll in "legit" book like 5dimes that are still licensed but break some rules by taking americans. But they are still a regulated book. What is misleading is comparing unlicensed book with hidden registrations to offshore books like 5dime.

Keep in mind that what is illegal in usa is not illegal in canada. all online books are illegal in usa, including the fully regulated and licensed ones.

[Optional]

I don't play at any illegal books.

Good for you.

Not sure how you figure the books you say that you do use in your first post are not illegal but others just like them are according to you


Anyways... I think your first post was actually asking if you would lose any value simply betting the other side at 5D and Pinny instead of laying at an exchange.

Yes you will most of the time.

Have you attempted to make a comparison yourself of any potential lays you want?

[SportsMushroom]

There are several reasons why.

First one is they accept clients from some European countries like e.g. Greece where you need a local license, which they do not have. 2nd is they accept bets through the Mollybet, Vodds, ET3 etc platforms from clients all over the world, including the US.

i see your point but all of this is debatable, pinnacle has withdrawn form countries where it is against the law for them to operate, like Denmark, Germany, France, Ireland, USA, United Kingdom, Turkey, Netherlands, Poland (per sbr)

as for greece, the law is ambiguous and has a lot of gray areas so they are not technically braking the law but as i said its debatable


as far as agents, agents restrict customers from using specific books if they are breaking the law by doing so, and im not sure but i think books dont know where bets are coming from when agents are used as middle men. Im not gonna pretend they dont know the bets might be coming from a limited jurisdiction but they turn a blind eye, but again they do so because they technically are not breaking the law, its another grey area.


in any case, on whatever side you want to put pinnacle on, there are books that follow the laws of the countries they operate in, and those that dont. the books that break laws cannot be characterized as legit because they are not, and if they feel its ok to break one law, then they will not have a problem with breaking other laws

now that i think about it this is all moot, most jurisdictions give out gambling licences like candy but dont really get involved in regulating books. they just want to keep the money rolling in. so gambling licenses mean squat

[Optional]

I'm not aware of Greece having any jurisdiction or right to make or enforce laws over Pinny or any other company outside Greece.

Not sure what law he thinks Pinny breaks there.

And if anyone wants to PM me about how Americans can play at Pinny these days, I'd like that info for people who regularly ask how they can access it.

[Hareeba!]

In Australia we keep hearing from the Government about the introduction of measures to stop us betting with "illegal offshore bookmakers".

What they are referring to is bookmakers who don't have a licence to take bets in Australia. Clearly the principal targets include Pinnacle which of course is a legal bookmaker registered in other domains but nevertheless "illegal" from our Government's point of view.

We can expect that the likes of Pinnacle will cease to accept Australian customers once the legislation is enacted. But the Costa Rican bookies which aren't regulated will simply take no notice.

Result: Australians will lose the likes of Pinnacle, Matchbook, SBOBet and The Greek, all legal and regulated bookmakers, and likely increase their use of unregulated bookies in Costa Rica.

And all the time the Government is trying to tell us that their legislation will lessen the risk for consumers!

[SportsMushroom]

In Australia we keep hearing from the Government about the introduction of measures to stop us betting with "illegal offshore bookmakers".

What they are referring to is bookmakers who don't have a licence to take bets in Australia. Clearly the principal targets include Pinnacle which of course is a legal bookmaker registered in other domains but nevertheless "illegal" from our Government's point of view.

We can expect that the likes of Pinnacle will cease to accept Australian customers once the legislation is enacted. But the Costa Rican bookies which aren't regulated will simply take no notice.

Result: Australians will lose the likes of Pinnacle, Matchbook, SBOBet and The Greek, all legal and regulated bookmakers, and likely increase their use of unregulated bookies in Costa Rica.

And all the time the Government is trying to tell us that their legislation will lessen the risk for consumers!

yeah the problem in most countries has is multifaceted

1)countries want books to have a licence in their country so they can monitor them and tax their income, to make this easier books are segragating their action according to country, eg there is a bet365.gr for greece, a paddypower.it for italy, bwin.fr for france etc

the reason pinnacle is not obtaining individual licences is because their margins are so thin as they are, adding the extra cost of obtaining and maintaining individual licenses and paying tax in a dozen different jurisdictions would not make financial sense

2)religious nutjobs that think its their obligation to protect us from sinning and governments oblige so that they dont lose their vote

3)lobbyists and corruption, companies, individuals and special interest groups within a country exert pressure on the government to get rid of their competition for them. eg in US and greece where there are a handful of companies that have a monopoly on gambling revenue. in greece its actually worse because there is only 1 company that gets the full protection of the goverment and has been getting it for decades, making it a monopoly, even by going against european laws

[jjgold]

its a losing battle period

need to live in UK

[Hareeba!]

its a losing battle period

need to live in UK

huh?
their bookies won't let you bet!
no minimum bet rule
no Pinnacle
and then there's the weather!