Where are you holding your Bitcoin during this fork?

**jjgold** · 07-20-17, 05:58 AM

What does thus mean?

**raiders72001** · 07-20-17, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Optional

From the info this Australian exchange is emailing out it looks like it might be smart for non-investors to make sure all funds are in fiat or a sportsbook account before July 30th.

****
This email goes to all Independent Reserve clients.

This is a supplement to our UASF announcement made on July 15th, and concerns the Bitcoin User Activated Hard Fork proposal (UAHF).

User Activated Hard Fork (UAHF), including Bitcoin ABC, is a proposal to alter the Bitcoin protocol by creating a new fork of the Bitcoin software, which will operate on its own separate blockchain. Further details are available here: https://www.bitcoinabc.org/

The UAHF is scheduled to activate on approximately August 1, 2017.

The UAHF differs to UASF because it is incompatible with the current Bitcoin protocol and will create a separate blockchain.

Should the UAHF activate, Independent Reserve will not support the new UAHF blockchain or its associated coin (Bitcoin Cash). Any Bitcoin within customer accounts will remain accessible over the main blockchain only, and will not be converted into coins on the UAHF chain.

If you wish to ensure that you have access to any resultant UAHF coins, please withdraw your Bitcoin from Independent Reserve prior to July 30th, 18:00 UTC+10.

We will issue further announcements in the lead up to these events if and when required.

Thank you for your support and understanding.

Adrian Przelozny

CEO, Independent Reserve
https://www.independentreserve.com

I could be wrong but I'm hoping for what the founder of LTC Charlie Lee believes.

Prediction: When BIP91 locks in and pools signal SegWit, BTC price will rally hard. Just like for Litecoin, market knows SegWit is awesome.

**evo34** · 07-20-17, 11:07 AM

http://www.bitsonline.com/bitcoin-wallet-ready-hard-fork-august/

**thomorino** · 07-20-17, 11:43 AM

Bitcoin will be fine long-term in my opinion. I traded professionally for years and still do and if you follow markets that don't have a lot of liquidity like bitcoin they are always volatile - at the end of the day bitcoin, like any other commodity, is about supply and demand, and their is more demand for bitcoin right now than their is supply. Sure when big individuals dump bitcoin or someone gets hacked it will be volatile, but bitcoin has worked for many years and until their is some major new law restricting access to bitcoin or some major new development with the supply-demand dynamic the price of bitcoin should continue to rise.

**DISTROYA** · 07-20-17, 01:20 PM

love itbit....i just convert to dollars and leave in there instead of worrying about 500-1000 per coin swings on a weekly basis, if not daily.

**Snowball** · 07-20-17, 01:33 PM

Bitmain is the main issue now.

**patswin** · 07-20-17, 02:05 PM

so for bitcoin dummies like me who have mine in coinbase should i sell them prior to 7/31? if someone can advise it would be appreciated

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 07-20-17, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by evo34

http://www.bitsonline.com/bitcoin-wa...d-fork-august/

good article thanks

**Optional** · 07-20-17, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by patswin

so for bitcoin dummies like me who have mine in coinbase should i sell them prior to 7/31? if someone can advise it would be appreciated

If you are an investor who wants to hold it, then you should read up a little more. The article Evo posted above is easy to understand.

If you are just using bitcoin for money transfer as a bettor, then just realize that in early August there could be uncertainty about if its wise to move bitcoin using some wallets for a while, so be prepared.

Personally I only have a couple of hundred worth floating around in actual bitcoin sitting in a wallet at any one time. I'm just going to make sure I deposit it all before Aug 1 and make sure I have my books funded in case it takes a couple of weeks to re-settle down and we know for sure what will be happening.

**themike78** · 07-20-17, 03:18 PM

I'm getting emails also about places suspending transactions for 72 hours and to withdraw all Bitcoin prior. I don't get. So if I don't withdraw that Bitcoin I will lose it then? This stuff makes no sense to me segwit, hard forks? Wtf you have to be some kind of super computer genious to understand all this nonsense. This is what I hate about Bitcoin.

**Pedro** · 07-20-17, 04:08 PM

Don't mean to add another 'subtread' into this thread, but after the hard-fork, which type of Bitcoin will the bookies use, if there ends up being two distinct bitcoins as mentioned in the above article?

Pedro

**Optional** · 07-20-17, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by themike78

I'm getting emails also about places suspending transactions for 72 hours and to withdraw all Bitcoin prior. I don't get. So if I don't withdraw that Bitcoin I will lose it then? This stuff makes no sense to me segwit, hard forks? Wtf you have to be some kind of super computer genious to understand all this nonsense. This is what I hate about Bitcoin.

Makes it even tougher when all the geniuses can really tell is that we have to wait and see as well.

Originally posted by Pedro

Don't mean to add another 'subtread' into this thread, but after the hard-fork, which type of Bitcoin will the bookies use, if there ends up being two distinct bitcoins as mentioned in the above article?

Pedro

We won't know until it happens. Nor will we know what the value of each coin will be.

it's not as big a deal as it sounds like it could be though. For investors I'd say it's just another volcano to traverse along the road to riches really. And for bettors, just get your funding/cashing done before Aug 1 and don't plan to do anything more until it is clear what will be happening.

**raiders72001** · 07-20-17, 06:39 PM

The chain isn't going to split. The signaling of BIP91 is close to the 80% threshold.

**raiders72001** · 07-20-17, 09:29 PM

BIP 91 has officially locked in.At press time, bitcoin's miners, the network of computer operators that secure the blockchain, have now been signaling that they will upgrade the code for 269 blocks in the same signaling period, a move that takes the software one step closer to changing its structure to accommodate more transactions.
Stepping back, the move finds miners agreeing to cement the first part of a larger effort to upgrade bitcoin, called Segwit2x.
The controversial proposal seeks to change the transaction structure of the network via Segregated Witness, and increase a cap on the amount of data that can be stored in transaction blocks, a move tentatively scheduled for later this fall.
With the signaling, mining pools nearly unanimously rallied behind the proposal, and BIP 91, designed partly to avoid a potential bitcoin split in the network, emerged as the first major step in following the roadmap.
In response, bitcoin saw a sharp price increase on Thursday due to the perceived forward progress, with some calling the BIP 91 lock-in a victory marking a "new dawn" for bitcoin.
But, the lock-in is just the first step to activating SegWit on the network, and other steps come with a bit more complexity.
Specifically, the following things need to happen for it to activate:

There will be a 336-block "grace period," taking about two and a half days, during which miners have time to prepare for activation.
BIP 91 will activate at block 477,120. Theoretically, mining pools will start rejecting blocks that do not signal support for SegWit (BIP 141). In this way, BIP 91 is a "coordination mechanism" that gets other mining pools to follow along or lose out on mining rewards.
SegWit could lock-in during the next difficulty adjustment period of 2016 blocks, which takes about two weeks.

http://www.coindesk.com/bip-91-locks...ot-scaled-yet/

**indio** · 07-21-17, 04:45 AM

I don't have the technical or computer skills to understand the applications, but from a political standpoint, it seems like a fight for the "soul" of bitcoin. On one side are the ones who want to expand bitcoin and want to make it more accessible for large traders and transactions. This side wants to welcome the big New York money merchants and banks like Goldman Sachs who are itching to get involved with it. This will mean state regulators, more financial rules, and ultimately cooperation with the Federal Reserve to implement it as a faster alternative to bank wires and such. On the other side of the debate are the ones who started Bitcoin as a complete alternative to central banks and their destructive Keynesian policies and to their complete authority over everybody's money. They want Bitcoin to remain a completely sovereign form of currency with no central authority, no outside influence on the supply, and absolutely no involvement with the Federal Reserve and international governmental authorities. Kind of like a "hip" artist who makes low budget independent films of high quality and has complete artistic control of the script,actors, and editing, and then gets a huge financial offer from a major studio to go under contract to make 5 new crappy commercial blockbusters (probably based on comic strips) with huge promotional support and world wide theater distribution, but will cede much of his artistic control to the producer and the studio executives who want to make sure it stays on budget and is commercially viable with "star" actors and proven script formulas.

That's a complete oversimplification but that's kind of how I see it. However, on a scale of 1 to 10 as far as my expertise on the whole matter, I'm about a 3, so if any one wants to tell me where I'm wrong, I'll certainly listen.

**BrickJames** · 07-21-17, 12:46 PM

I sold most of my Holdings at 2400.

I'm still sitting on about a thousand worth.

I'll probably just hang on tight and hope for the best

**littlekona** · 07-21-17, 03:11 PM

So if we have some In airbitz and blockchain.info wallet is it safe or should we cash out?

**raiders72001** · 07-21-17, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by littlekona

So if we have some In airbitz and blockchain.info wallet is it safe or should we cash out?

You would be fine with that. Contingency plans for exchanges https://news.bitcoin.com/how-exchang...august-1-fork/

Don't transfer any coins shortly after the split even though, once again, I don't see a split happening.

**Kindred** · 07-23-17, 05:15 PM

phone wallets and any spv wallet isn't safe. If you don't know how to run your full node use a hardware wallet.

trezor.io well worth the small investment not just for the hardfork but easiest safest way to store Bitcoin and you can have separate wallets on one trezor to keep gambling funds separate from other funds. Trezor means vault in Slavic. It's open source and oldest most tested hardware wallet on the market. Ledger is also a good choice but usually out of stock and personally I find Trezor easier to use for many reasons.
Don't buy a used Trezor, if they were tampered with you won't know and possible the random keys aren't random. You can buy a used ledger because it has an secure element, which isn't open source so you trust the company that developed it not to have a back door, but it will self destruct if anyone tries to tamper with it. So you can buy used ledger if that's all you can find, but they are over priced since they are out of stock. Think the normal price is $90 and since they are out of stock everywhere you get prices like this on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/272767663652...84.m1555.l2649

**Kindred** · 07-23-17, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by littlekona

So if we have some In airbitz and blockchain.info wallet is it safe or should we cash out?

cashout. Airbitz said they will follow the longest chain, so if there is a split you'll only get one of the coins not both. I imagine blockchian.info is same but not sure. Same with holding money on exchanges, if there is a split you might not get both coins. So if a split happens and even if one coins is gonna die off you could sell it and get some extra money and keep all your real bitcoin on the chain that eventually lives on.

**Kindred** · 07-23-17, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

You would be fine with that. Contingency plans for exchanges https://news.bitcoin.com/how-exchang...august-1-fork/

Don't transfer any coins shortly after the split even though, once again, I don't see a split happening.

airbitz and blockchain.info aren't exchanges and I know airbitz has said they will just follow the longest chain ignoring a split. I don't think there will be a split either but if there is you don't want your coins on a wallet that only gives you access to one of the chains when you own cons on both chains.

**Kindred** · 07-23-17, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by themike78

I'm getting emails also about places suspending transactions for 72 hours and to withdraw all Bitcoin prior. I don't get. So if I don't withdraw that Bitcoin I will lose it then? This stuff makes no sense to me segwit, hard forks? Wtf you have to be some kind of super computer genious to understand all this nonsense. This is what I hate about Bitcoin.

Not a genius just a nerd with no girlfriend and a lot of free time

**raiders72001** · 07-23-17, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Kindred

airbitz and blockchain.info aren't exchanges and I know airbitz has said they will just follow the longest chain ignoring a split. I don't think there will be a split either but if there is you don't want your coins on a wallet that only gives you access to one of the chains when you own cons on both chains.

They are wallets. Extract the private key and import it. You can use either chain.

**Optional** · 07-24-17, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by raiders72001

They are wallets. Extract the private key and import it. You can use either chain.

@Raiders. Will people lose value if they do not access both chains, if it happens and they survive?

Is it likely that people would just keep using the one version and leave alt coins sitting there and effectively lost?

I assume that if btc is worth $3000 at the time of a split, one chain might be worth $2500 and the other $500, depending on support levels. is that close to what might happen? Or is it a total guess on possible values after a split?

**Memento** · 07-24-17, 02:46 PM

...

**R40** · 07-24-17, 04:47 PM

From what I read, there is not going to be a fork and they are not going to fix anything until the fall so bitcoin depositing is going to be hell for football. Think I will pass on any bitcoin deposit that is not BetOnline or Bovada.

**RonPaul2008** · 07-25-17, 07:53 AM

Raiders, is this accurate....I thought this wasn't happening now.
It says they knew this on Satutday, but i'm just seeing this. Also btc dropping like a rock today...is this why?

Bitcoin Cash: What You Need to Know

Bitcoin Cash’s sudden announcement on Saturday that they’ll go ahead with a fork on August 1 caught a lot of people, including myself, by surprise. In this article, I’m going to explain what Bitcoin Cash (aka BCC) is, how it affects you and how you should prepare for August 1.
What is Bitcoin Cash?

Here is the project announcement on Bitcointalk.
Here is the project website.

From the project website’s FAQ:

What is Bitcoin Cash?
Bitcoin Cash is peer-to-peer electronic cash for the Internet. It is fully decentralized, with no central bank and requires no trusted third parties to operate.

The prominent use of “peer-to-peer electronic cash” is purposeful here. Bitcoin Cash is seeking to be a cryptocurrency that’s focused on transaction capacity.
Why is this fork a surprise?

Many people (including myself) thought that this fork would only trigger if BIP148 were able to split the network. In other words, many people thought Bitcoin Cash (and its client Bitcoin ABC) was just a credible threat to prevent a contentious user-activated soft fork (UASF). Bitmain actually stated that the Segwit2x (aka New York Agreement) would be preferable:
So naturally, when BIP91 (first part of Segwit2x) locked-in and activated ahead of BIP148, which is scheduled for August 1, most assumed this would prevent the so-called user-activated hard fork (UAHF) from triggering.
But, it looks like Bitcoin Cash supporters had other ideas.
Why should I care?

You should care because Bitcoin Cash is a permanent fork of Bitcoin.
Again, from the FAQ:

Is Bitcoin Cash different from ‘Bitcoin’?
Yes. Bitcoin Cash is the continuation of the Bitcoin project as peer-to-peer digital cash. It is a fork of the Bitcoin blockchain ledger, with upgraded consensus rules that allow it to grow and scale.

This means that if you own Bitcoin (that is, you control your own private keys) prior to the fork on 2017 August 1 12:20 UTC, you will have the same amount of Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash after the fork.
Lest you think these BCC isn’t worth anything, BCC futures are currently trading at about $475 on ViaBTC.
What do I need to know?

First, you should know that many exchanges, including Coinbase, are simply not prepared for this event.
Again, from the FAQ:

If I own Bitcoin, do I automatically own Bitcoin Cash too?
Yes. Because Bitcoin Cash is a fork of the ledger, that means you own the same amount of Bitcoin Cash as you did Bitcoin at the time of the forking block. However, if your Bitcoins are stored by a third party such as an exchange, then you must inquire with them about your cash.

Note that last sentence. Exchanges or third-party bitcoin storage providers may or may not give you your Bitcoin Cash. It’s likely that third party services will try to do the right thing, but there’s no way to know if they can get everything set up in time to be able to give you the Bitcoin Cash you’re entitled to.
Second, all hard forks present two risks: replay and wipeout attacks. Wipeout is not a as much risk since this is a permanent fork (there are scenarios where one chain’s miners may attack the other, but this isn’t in play yet). Replay protection is provided as part of the Bitcoin Cash release as explained in the FAQ:

How is transaction replay being handled between the new and the old blockchain?
Bitcoin Cash transactions use a new flag SIGHASH_FORKID, which is non standard to the legacy blockchain. This prevents Bitcoin Cash transactions from being replayed on the Bitcoin blockchain and vice versa.

Rest assured that as long as you control your own private keys, you should be able to use those keys to create transactions on either chain safely.
I thought Bitcoin solved scaling! Why is this happening?

Good question. After the scaling drama of the past few years, we finally made progress when BIP91 locked in on Thursday. Though Segwit increases transaction capacity, it’s not done so in a way that everyone is happy with.
BCC looks like an appeal to the segment of the Bitcoin users that don’t like Segwit. Since Segwit is getting activated on Bitcoin, this fork gives many of these people a place to go

**themike78** · 07-25-17, 08:14 AM

Great. Now it gets even more confusing. I'm going back to P2P. Fuk all this nonsense.

**KDOWNS** · 07-25-17, 09:58 AM

Optional,

I am really confused on all of this fork stuff. Come Aug 2nd in your opinion, do you think the process will stay the same for the way we use this? or will coinbase have a whole new process, site look, etc?, or is everyone waiting to see what happens. Seems like big investors are more worried.

If we bitcoin in Bitpay that should be fine , correct? Thats should not be affected at all. Thx for keeping us informed, I know its hard to do so with this.

**trytrytry** · 07-25-17, 10:42 AM

I have what is probably a stupid question on the fork and choices the sportsbooks might make post fork (as in 2 bitcoin markets and values)

Lets say over the Aug 1st time period when the fork might happen you hold your BITCOINS in a sportsbook (these unregulated off shore books like nitrogen or whatever)

then a fork happens and its clear there are two values.

What is stopping the sports books (all or any of them) from give you value on the lower priced fork bitcoin and keeping the difference for themselves?

what would "prevent" that as you dont own the coins at all, could they decide or "fraudulently" decide to choose the value of your coins?

Or could you tell from their wallet somehow what fork or split they took or got stuck with?

**Optional** · 07-25-17, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by KDOWNS

Optional,

I am really confused on all of this fork stuff. Come Aug 2nd in your opinion, do you think the process will stay the same for the way we use this? or will coinbase have a whole new process, site look, etc?, or is everyone waiting to see what happens. Seems like big investors are more worried.

If we bitcoin in Bitpay that should be fine , correct? Thats should not be affected at all. Thx for keeping us informed, I know its hard to do so with this.

Info changes so much I really dont know exactly what to expect myself.

Don't go into a panic though. As the article above says all the big exchanges will try to make sure everyone is treated fairly.

But if I was holding much bitcoin as an investor (I am not) then i would get it into a wallet I have full control over the keys myself. I believe blockchain.info/wallet is fine.

I don't know what you mean by Bitpay really. If you have sent bitcoin to your bitpay card then it is already cash. If it's in a bitcoin wallet there I'd suggest asking them what are their plans and will you be able to access BitcoinABC coins on that fork.

if you are a bettor just using it to do transfers, just try to make sure you dont need to use it in early August as much as possible Load up now or withdraw now etc. And if you are holding any bitcoin maybe deposit it to a fiat book or cash it out to cash.

Originally posted by trytrytry

I have what is probably a stupid question on the fork and choices the sportsbooks might make post fork (as in 2 bitcoin markets and values)

Lets say over the Aug 1st time period when the fork might happen you hold your BITCOINS in a sportsbook (these unregulated off shore books like nitrogen or whatever)

then a fork happens and its clear there are two values.

What is stopping the sports books (all or any of them) from give you value on the lower priced fork bitcoin and keeping the difference for themselves?

what would "prevent" that as you dont own the coins at all, could they decide or "fraudulently" decide to choose the value of your coins?

Or could you tell from their wallet somehow what fork or split they took or got stuck with?

It's a good question.

I'd assume bitcoin only books will simply pocket any associated alt coins and pay you in traditional bitcoin coins as per normal.

**RonPaul2008** · 07-25-17, 11:36 AM

SBR should inquire with Nitrogen, Cloudbet, and others to find out how they would handle a bitcoin abc fork.

**TheMoneyShot** · 07-25-17, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by trytrytry

I have what is probably a stupid question on the fork and choices the sportsbooks might make post fork (as in 2 bitcoin markets and values)

Lets say over the Aug 1st time period when the fork might happen you hold your BITCOINS in a sportsbook (these unregulated off shore books like nitrogen or whatever)

then a fork happens and its clear there are two values.

What is stopping the sports books (all or any of them) from give you value on the lower priced fork bitcoin and keeping the difference for themselves?

what would "prevent" that as you dont own the coins at all, could they decide or "fraudulently" decide to choose the value of your coins?

Or could you tell from their wallet somehow what fork or split they took or got stuck with?

My first notion on this.... clearly ALARMING.

I don't have much room for RISK.... I would pull out.

For those who have leeway for RISK... good luck.

It's just really hard for me to trust any source of what truly will happen July 31, Aug 1, or Aug 2nd... or whenever. Could it all be hype? Could this screw up the entire network for weeks? I'd be really surprised if the Bitcoin price didn't start free falling Thursday or Friday.

**RonPaul2008** · 07-25-17, 05:45 PM

Bitmain Clarifies Its ‘Bitcoin Cash’ Fork Position

Lester Coleman on 25/07/2017

ViaBTC, the Chinese digital currency exchange, recently announced support for trading a new bitcoin fork called “Bitcoin Cash” (BCC), based on User Activated Hard Fork (UAHF), which Bitmain proposed in April.
Get exclusive analysis of bitcoin and learn from our trading tutorials. Join Hacked.com for just $39 now.

Bitmain, in a recent blog, noted that it proposed UAHF to protect the bitcoin ecosystem from the BIP148 fork, known as User Activated Soft Fork (UASF).
Bitmain noted that BIP148 continues to gain support, including from Bitcoin Core developers. Bitmain claims BIP148 poses a significant risk to the bitcoin ecosystem, hence the need for a contingency plan.
Attack Continues on New York Agreement

Bitcoin Core software developers also continue to sabotage the New York agreement, the blog noted, an agreement supported by more than 80% of the hashing power and 80% of the transactions source software in order to scale bitcoin quickly.
Under BIP148, its nodes will begin to orphan bitcoin blocks not signaling Bit 1 at its UASF forking point after August 1, Bitmain noted in another blog. BIP148 nodes will follow the new BIP148 chain if there is more than zero hashing power supporting it. If the hash rate is zero, the BIP148 nodes will find their chain cannot extend.

Mining activity behind a UASF chain could halt without notice, and investors could lose all their investment, Bitmain claims. Exchanges that support a UASF token following the forking point must consider the stagnation risk it brings.
The BIP148 chain also has no replay protection, according to Bitmain. Transactions will be broadcast to both chains and users will not prevent confirmation on both chains. The exchanges will need to halt deposits and withdrawals at the forking point, then deploy their own coin splitting methods.
The UASF poses a risk to the original chain. Without a contingency plan, activity on the original chain could be eliminated.
Bitmain Is Ready

Bitmain will only deploy UAHF if the UASF fork occurs and presents an imminent risk to the ecosystem.
Bitmain also noted that software developers at the Future of Bitcoin conference in the Netherlands proposed Bitcoin ABC, a software for increasing bitcoin’s block size that replaces the SegWit code with an adjustable block size cap.
Supporters of bitcoin’s block size increase now lead the development of UAHF, Bitmain noted, adding that it does not control supporters opinions.

Bitmain Clarifies ViaBTC Relationship

Bitmain has offered the following clarifications of its position.
1. ViaBTC and Bitmain have only a shared investment relationship whereby ViaBTC operates independently. ViaBTC’s founder has 10 times the voting rights of ViaBTC investors. Hence, ViaBTC’s position does not represent Bitmain’s.
2. The New York agreement represents the global bitcoin community. Bitmain has actively supported SegWit2x’s deployment, and will continue to run the btc1 software on its mining polls, such as ConnectBTC, Antpool and BTC.COM in the near future.
3. Bitmain continues to monitor the BCC movement and does not discount supporting both BCC and SegWit2x.