Where are you holding your Bitcoin during this fork?

[Jedi Mind Picks]

https://medium.com/@jimmysong/bitcoin-cash-what-you-need-to-know-c25df28995cf

Basically own your own private keys during the fork and receive your air dropped shitcoin BCC in the same amount.

So if your hands are not to weak by then put them in a personal wallet like on your desktop ect.

If you have your coin on an exchange its likely you won't get shit except panic over the price.

[Optional]

Notice on 5Dimes site about upcoming Bitcoin issues

[R40]

Thank you for your comprehension in the matter.

No comprendo.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

I have what is probably a stupid question on the fork and choices the sportsbooks might make post fork (as in 2 bitcoin markets and values)

Lets say over the Aug 1st time period when the fork might happen you hold your BITCOINS in a sportsbook (these unregulated off shore books like nitrogen or whatever)

then a fork happens and its clear there are two values.

What is stopping the sports books (all or any of them) from give you value on the lower priced fork bitcoin and keeping the difference for themselves?

what would "prevent" that as you dont own the coins at all, could they decide or "fraudulently" decide to choose the value of your coins?

Or could you tell from their wallet somehow what fork or split they took or got stuck with?

You've hit the nail on the head. There's a HUGE risk that sportsbooks will simply pocket the Bitcoin Cash (BCC) tokens that are issued to the BTC in their reserves. In fact, I think it's likely. Here's the worryingly non-commital response I got from Nitro when I asked about it:


Nitrogen Sports Support at 3:03pm on July 26, 2017
Hello XXX.

Thank you for reaching out to us with your inquiry! We appreciate your kind words.

Nitrogen continuously monitors updates to the bitcoin client, network, protocol and community. We would certainly never make any kind of switch independently, but we will pay attention to the community at large in order to make the best decision for Nitrogen and it's users.

Unfortunately, we cannot commit to what this decision will be at this time but we encourage you to continue checking our website for any updates in this regard.

If you have any other concern, feel free to contact us.

Best regards,
XXX

In addition, there's a bad precedent from last month. Not many people knew it, but an alt-coin called Stellar Lumens (STR/XLM) gave away coins to every bitcoin owner. But instead of passing that free money onto holders, all the sportsbooks and nearly all the exchanges just pocketed the money themselves. The same thing could happen this time.

So, what should people do? Withdraw all your bitcoin from all sportsbooks. DON'T put them at exchanges. To guarantee you'll receive your BCC, you must have your Bitcoin in a wallet that gives you, not the exchanges, control over your private keys. Any wallet on this page will do that for you: https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

[RonPaul2008]

Which desktop wallet(s) are best for linux and are the most secure?

[SBR Forum]

Nitrogen Comments:

Original link: https://nitrogensports.eu/blog/note-...tcoin-network/

We’re sure many of you are aware of the recent conversation in the Bitcoin community regarding improvement protocols and finding a technical solution to network congestion.

Technical changes on this scale do add the risk of temporary instability to the network, and Nitrogen Sports needs to take this into account as we look to protect our players during this period.

Ahead of the August 1st split event, Nitrogen is proactively taking the following temporary measures to protect its players:

Jul. 30 @ 08:00 EST – All withdrawals will be stopped. Any withdrawals made before the cutoff time will be processed normally.

Aug. 1 @ 04:00 EST – All deposits will be stopped. Any deposits made before the cutoff time will clear after 1 or more confirmation.

Aug. 1 @ 06:00 EST – 3 Card Poker, Baccarat, and Poker will be unavailable to all players for a short time.

Aug. 1 @ 12:00 EST – Assuming network stability, deposits will be reactivated.

Aug. 1 @ 17:00 EST – Assuming network stability, withdrawals will be reactivated.

After August 1st, Nitrogen Sports will assess the events on the BTC network split and will implement a process to ensure that players have the ability to withdraw in alternate versions of BTC, as they wish (eg. BCC).

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Nitrogen Sports

[RonPaul2008]

Thanks SBR Forum. Does this mean if the network splits with bcc, depositors will get their full btc balance as well as an equal number of bcc that can be withdrawn separately? And do they have any idea how long before depositors could withdraw bcc after the fork?

[MeanPeopleSuck]

Nitrogen Comments:

Original link: https://nitrogensports.eu/blog/note-...tcoin-network/

We’re sure many of you are aware of the recent conversation in the Bitcoin community regarding improvement protocols and finding a technical solution to network congestion.

Technical changes on this scale do add the risk of temporary instability to the network, and Nitrogen Sports needs to take this into account as we look to protect our players during this period.

Ahead of the August 1st split event, Nitrogen is proactively taking the following temporary measures to protect its players:

Jul. 30 @ 08:00 EST – All withdrawals will be stopped. Any withdrawals made before the cutoff time will be processed normally.

Aug. 1 @ 04:00 EST – All deposits will be stopped. Any deposits made before the cutoff time will clear after 1 or more confirmation.

Aug. 1 @ 06:00 EST – 3 Card Poker, Baccarat, and Poker will be unavailable to all players for a short time.

Aug. 1 @ 12:00 EST – Assuming network stability, deposits will be reactivated.

Aug. 1 @ 17:00 EST – Assuming network stability, withdrawals will be reactivated.

After August 1st, Nitrogen Sports will assess the events on the BTC network split and will implement a process to ensure that players have the ability to withdraw in alternate versions of BTC, as they wish (eg. BCC).

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Nitrogen Sports

Oh, good find. I'll edit the thread I just posted to reflect this update.

Now, this post does say we'll be able to withdraw (and presumably also deposit) in either BTC or BCC, but what it doesn't quite say is that they'll pass the BCC tokens awarded to the players' currently deposited BTC on to those players.

Heh, this problem is particularly applicable to any players -- like me -- with BTC bets pending that won't resolve before August 1st.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

https://medium.com/@jimmysong/bitcoi...w-c25df28995cf

Basically own your own private keys during the fork and receive your air dropped shitcoin BCC in the same amount.

So if your hands are not to weak by then put them in a personal wallet like on your desktop ect.

If you have your coin on an exchange its likely you won't get shit except panic over the price.

I thought BCC would be a sh!tcoin, too, but it's currently being valued at over $400 in the only BCC futures market I know of: https://www.viabtc.com/quot/realtime...c&chart=simple

[Optional]

Oh, good find. I'll edit the thread I just posted to reflect this update.

Now, this post does say we'll be able to withdraw (and presumably also deposit) in either BTC or BCC, but what it doesn't quite say is that they'll pass the BCC tokens awarded to the players' currently deposited BTC on to those players.

Heh, this problem is particularly applicable to any players -- like me -- with BTC bets pending that won't resolve before August 1st.

If you don't own the coin I doubt you can expect the alt coin generated from it.

If it's deposited it's spent. Nitro own it until you withdraw.

For this reason I'd suggest only having what you need deposited to bet before Aug 1 and hold anything else in a wallet you control the keys for.

[Optional]

And do they have any idea how long before depositors could withdraw bcc after the fork?

"Aug. 1 @ 17:00 EST – Assuming network stability, withdrawals will be reactivated."

[RonPaul2008]

"Aug. 1 @ 17:00 EST – Assuming network stability, withdrawals will be reactivated."

You misunderstood the question. It's about withdrawing bcc (which hopefully they will provide to people with btc in their accounts), not withdrawing btc. SBR needs clarification from nitro if they will give everyone with btc in their accounts at the time of a bcc fork, both all their original btc and an equal number of bcc.

[Kindred]

I actually just dumped a bunch of my Bitcoin into a mining ICO, you can rent the tokens out minimum rental rate on the site using their calculator shows 36% return, but I bet I can just flip them and double my money and avoid this whole Bitcoin drama.You can tell it's real company, they are in Washington state and Instagram shows the build out https://www.instagram.com/gigawatt_mining/

[Optional]

You misunderstood the question. It's about withdrawing bcc (which hopefully they will provide to people with btc in their accounts), not withdrawing btc. SBR needs clarification from nitro if they will give everyone with btc in their accounts at the time of a bcc fork, both all their original btc and an equal number of bcc.

Why do you imagine you would be owed that?

People who own the BTC at the time of any fork are the only ones with any claim to any alt coin generated.

If you want a claim to it, then make sure you own the bitcoin at that time.


This is why I started the thread to start with. To warn you not to leave your bitcoin sitting around where you dont control it Aug 1

[Kindred]

I actually just dumped a bunch of my Bitcoin into a mining ICO, you can rent the tokens out minimum rental rate on the site using their calculator shows 36% return, but I bet I can just flip them and double my money and avoid this whole Bitcoin drama.You can tell it's real company, they are in Washington state and Instagram shows the build out https://www.instagram.com/gigawatt_mining/

Obiously not everything but just incase Bitcoin blows up figured might get a nice return and not have to sell and worry about figuring out taxes, rest I'm letting ride in my Trezor wallet hoping for best. The ICO is http://alturl.com/ugese

[Kindred]

I also put a little in Litecoin, if shit goes bad with Bitcoin I'd suspect Litecoin to benefit, but it's risky business since if it all works well for bitcoin I have no idea what that means for litecoin, could crash.

[Optional]

I actually just dumped a bunch of my Bitcoin into a mining ICO, you can rent the tokens out minimum rental rate on the site using their calculator shows 36% return, but I bet I can just flip them and double my money and avoid this whole Bitcoin drama.You can tell it's real company, they are in Washington state and Instagram shows the build out https://www.instagram.com/gigawatt_mining/

36% return sounds like a ponzi or some very hopeful newbies. Either way a borderline scam without knowing anything more.

[ThaWoj]

I thought BCC would be a sh!tcoin, too, but it's currently being valued at over $400 in the only BCC futures market I know of: https://www.viabtc.com/quot/realtime...c&chart=simple

So if I own 1 bitcoin in a wallet I control the keys to and it's worth 2500 usd, are you saying after the split btc would be worth 2100 and bcc would be worth 400 and I would own 1 unit of each?

[raiders72001]

Sorry not to answer questions directed. Things were looking so good until Bitcoin Cash.

https://www.coindesk.com/information/paper-wallet-tutorial/

[RonPaul2008]

Sorry not to answer questions directed. Things were looking so good until Bitcoin Cash.

https://www.coindesk.com/information...llet-tutorial/

What % chance do you think there is of a fork with bitcoin cash in August?

[MeanPeopleSuck]

If you don't own the coin I doubt you can expect the alt coin generated from it.

If it's deposited it's spent. Nitro own it until you withdraw.

For this reason I'd suggest only having what you need deposited to bet before Aug 1 and hold anything else in a wallet you control the keys for.

Optional, you don't think for a second that I've left any BTC on deposit at any BTC sportsbooks, do you? My pending wager was made a month ago and won't be graded until Dec 31st, way before BCC was even an idea in someone's head.

And I disagree with you: when we deposit Bitcoin (or dollars, for that matter), we give it to the sportsbooks in trust, to hold while we gamble and then to settle up with at the end. If the form of currency undergoes changes while on deposit, those changes should stick with the currency and end up with whoever wins: you or the sportsbook.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

So if I own 1 bitcoin in a wallet I control the keys to and it's worth 2500 usd, are you saying after the split btc would be worth 2100 and bcc would be worth 400 and I would own 1 unit of each?

Well, nobody knows for sure what BCC will actually trade for. The market makers in that futures market are suggesting $400 is the correct number, but they could easily be wrong -- and by a lot -- in either direction. To my embarrassment, in a Reddit pool two days ago (that cost me .05 btc) I took $50 as the 12 hours post opening price the Viabtc BCC futures market would stand at. I was off by a little bit more than a little.

But even if they're right, that doesn't mean your BTC will drop by $400 on Tuesday. My guess is a lot of the BCC carveout is already being priced into BTC's current price. Given all the great news in the Scalability War -- BIP 91's locked in, meaning BIP 141 (AKA SegWit) is almost certainly going to lock in August 11th, followed by SegWit2x later in August, BTC's price really should be at or near an all time high. I believe the only reason it isn't is because people are already pricing in the BCC split.

But if you're convinced they're overpricing BCC, join the market and kick their butts.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

What % chance do you think there is of a fork with bitcoin cash in August?

I think the chance this hard fork happens on August 1st is 99%. And I know of what I speak: for over a year, I fought shoulder to shoulder with the sponsors of BCC, back when it was called Bitcoin Unlimited. After our faction was defeated in May by the compromise SegWit2x, most of us said, "fine, OK. We don't think SegWit, even w/ the 2x part thrown in for us, is the best answer, but it's AN answer, so we're onboard."

But not the bitter enders behind BCC. They call themselves Purists and are a weird collection of anarchists, fanatics, trolls and geniuses (and if you doubt that last one, consider the speed with which they've put together BCC). Plus, they've got computer degrees, plenty of time on their hands, and a determination to make all of our lives harder for a while.

PS: I don't know anything about Linux, but my guess is the same wallets that are secure in other programming languages will also be secure in Linux. All of these are safe, leaving you with access to your private keys: https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

[RonPaul2008]

Do any physical stores in the usa sell hardware wallets? And how easy is it to use a make a cold storage wallet on a laptop?

If you do your own cold storage like that, and the computer dies, can you use the private key or whatever to recover your funds?

Paper wallet seems limiting as they say you should only remove the whole balance at once and should not remove in increments.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

If you don't own the coin I doubt you can expect the alt coin generated from it.

If it's deposited it's spent. Nitro own it until you withdraw.

For this reason I'd suggest only having what you need deposited to bet before Aug 1 and hold anything else in a wallet you control the keys for.

So you don't think you own the dollars you deposit at a sportsbook? OK, so then, if the sportsbooks own your deposited dollars, and decide to spend those dollars -- their dollars -- on themselves in the form of huge salaries and bonuses, I guess then you'd say you had no grounds for complaint when you asked for a withdrawal and they said, "Sorry, after you deposited them to us, they became our dollars. Just like everyone else on earth, we spent our money on ourselves. We can't give you back what we don't have anymore."

There has to be some concept of depositing our currency into a trust or else the system breaks down.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

Do any physical stores in the usa sell hardware wallets? And how easy is it to use a make a cold storage wallet on a laptop?

If you do your own cold storage like that, and the computer dies, can you use the private key or whatever to recover your funds?

Paper wallet seems limiting as they say you should only remove the whole balance at once and should not remove in increments.

I've got absolute respect for Raiders' crypto chops, but on this one trivial point, I might respectfully offer a second perspective; namely that going all the way to a paper wallet's probably a step further in security than anyone without a vast fortune to protect has to go.

A quicker, easier option is to download a secure, private wallet to your computer and store your private keys there. There's plenty of good options, but I personally use Electrum: https://electrum.org/#home

You can have it downloaded and up and running in an hour and have your BTC snug safely inside it half hour after that.

[jtoler]

So you don't think you own the dollars you deposit at a sportsbook? OK, so then, if the sportsbooks own your deposited dollars, and decide to spend those dollars -- their dollars -- on themselves in the form of huge salaries and bonuses, I guess then you'd say you had no grounds for complaint when you asked for a withdrawal and they said, "Sorry, after you deposited them to us, they became our dollars. Just like everyone else on earth, we spent our money on ourselves. We can't give you back what we don't have anymore."

There has to be some concept of depositing our currency into a trust or else the system breaks down.

little thing called faith, they expect us to live by it if we dont comply the "system" would never work. go down to your bank in the morning and try to withdraw 2 mil and see what they tell you. i think you may have taken what opti said a little too literal.

[raiders72001]

I've got absolute respect for Raiders' crypto chops, but on this one trivial point, I might respectfully offer a second perspective; namely that going all the way to a paper wallet's probably a step further in security than anyone without a vast fortune to protect has to go.

A quicker, easier option is to download a secure, private wallet to your computer and store your private keys there. There's plenty of good options, but I personally use Electrum: https://electrum.org/#home

You can have it downloaded and up and running in an hour and have your BTC snug safely inside it half hour after that.

thanks for the props. You and Optional are definite go to sources and must reads at this time. This Bitcoin Cash took me by surprise. I thought we averted two coins.

[raiders72001]

Looks like the fork is scheduled for 8/1 at 12:20 PM UTC.

[RonPaul2008]

Raiders, do you think any of the big established books, for instance bookmaker, 5dimes, or any of the A rated books at SBR, will accept bcc for deposits anytime soon?

[raiders72001]

Raiders, do you think any of the big established books, for instance bookmaker, 5dimes, or any of the A rated books at SBR, will accept bcc for deposits anytime soon?

I highly doubt it. If so, bitcoin only book Betcoin will be the first. They take ETH and LTC.

[RonPaul2008]

I highly doubt it. If so, bitcoin only book Betcoin will be the first. They take ETH and LTC.

Will Betcoin convert eth and ltc deposits to bitcoin in your account if you wish?

[Optional]

What do people think will happen with the BitcoinCash fork?

Will it survive? Will it have enough miners? Will it be worth anything or end up a penny stock like most alt coins?

[MeanPeopleSuck]

Looks like the fork is scheduled for 8/1 at 12:20 PM UTC.

Yep, 7:20am EST on Tuesday. And I totally agree: we were THAT close to getting through this mess unscathed. With BIP 91 locked in, SegWit locking in August 11th and SegWit2x later in August, BTC should be at an all time high right now. The ONLY reason it's not: BCC, a product, I'm ashamed to admit, of my former brothers in arms in the Bitcoin Unlimited movement.

[MeanPeopleSuck]

TWO BIG DEVELOPMENTS (as so often in crypto, these developments conflict):

1. This afternoon Bitstamp announced it would NOT support BCC trading, nor distribute BCC to its clients. From that announcement, people thought, "well, if straight-as-an-arrow Bitstamp's not going to support BCC then maybe none of the exchanges will. Wait, they're trying to strangle BCC in its crib!"

So, BTC jumped $200 and the futures market for BCC plunged by $100. All looked great until 20 minutes ago, when:

2. Bitfinex Announced the exact opposite position: It WILL distribute BCC to its BTC holders and it plans to open a trading market in BCC "as soon as practicable." So, now I suppose BTC's upward momentum will be blunted and the BCC'ers hopes (and futures price) will re-inflate.

Why? Because life in crypto is NEVER easy.