Best countries to live in for sports betting

[Black777]

yes man, i work only with agents and I've also heard from other people that's the best route. So thank you, you've just confirmed what I thought!

Coming back to my doubt, I hope it's like you say, also from a taxation point of view. Honestly I don't want to move and I just look for safe and clear solution from my country, even if i've to pay some taxes on my profits. As individual, actually we can't do it. Same apply to Spain for Jogador , the guy who was suggesting this way few messages before

Hi guys!

I am not really sure the company route would make things simpler and give a solution to the matter. Especially if you do not want to move from your home country.
I am quite sure I read that if you are physically resident in your home country (Italy) and the income of your company is generated from this same country (lets say you organize everything from your laptop even though the company is based in Malta) then this is the country that has right to tax your income. Said this, if Italian tax department wants to investigate well and further they easily find out the company you opened is linked to asian brokers which are not legal in Italy. Does this thought work?

As far as I can see we have sure information just about estonia where you are taxed 20%. That for sure is a considerable amount but it all depends on how much your are able to invest (and how safe you want to be compared to the law).
I think another crucial part in this matter involves banks. I am sure that not every country have banks which are gambling friendly (especially for AML agreement within the EU countries). As we can see from reply #36 at this thread https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...l#post29171081
And if we want to invest considerable amounts we can not rely on ewallets nowadays.
There also has been a case where the bank account of an asian broker was closed if I remember right

Probably we have to create a 'syndicate' and relocate together

PS. Camma23 sorry but I am not able to reply to PM messages yet

[Camma23]

Hi guys!

I am not really sure the company route would make things simpler and give a solution to the matter. Especially if you do not want to move from your home country.
I am quite sure I read that if you are physically resident in your home country (Italy) and the income of your company is generated from this same country (lets say you organize everything from your laptop even though the company is based in Malta) then this is the country that has right to tax your income. Said this, if Italian tax department wants to investigate well and further they easily find out the company you opened is linked to asian brokers which are not legal in Italy. Does this thought work?

As far as I can see we have sure information just about estonia where you are taxed 20%. That for sure is a considerable amount but it all depends on how much your are able to invest (and how safe you want to be compared to the law).
I think another crucial part in this matter involves banks. I am sure that not every country have banks which are gambling friendly (especially for AML agreement within the EU countries). As we can see from reply #36 at this thread https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...l#post29171081
And if we want to invest considerable amounts we can not rely on ewallets nowadays.
There also has been a case where the bank account of an asian broker was closed if I remember right

Probably we have to create a 'syndicate' and relocate together

PS. Camma23 sorry but I am not able to reply to PM messages yet

well, man what you say about Italy is correct, but my idea (don't know if legally can work or not, haven't talked with an expert yet) is that if you give a corporate status to your business, things could change. Because you can tax your income in a different way compared to an individual person. Don't know if you idea is not pay anything and live wild and free ahah but from my view, I'm ok to tax my profit. My problem is that our country doesn't even allow to declare and tax that profit
Ofc it must be 100% clear and working system, otherwise we haven't solved anything with the corporate route. I know for sure in other countries it works under GmbH (our Srl).

ok I give up, you have several common forums and blogs where you can reach me

[Black777]

well, man what you say about Italy is correct, but my idea (don't know if legally can work or not, haven't talked with an expert yet) is that if you give a corporate status to your business, things could change. Because you can tax your income in a different way compared to an individual person. Don't know if you idea is not pay anything and live wild and free ahah but from my view, I'm ok to tax my profit. My problem is that our country doesn't even allow to declare and tax that profit
Ofc it must be 100% clear and working system, otherwise we haven't solved anything with the corporate route. I know for sure in other countries it works under GmbH (our Srl).

ok I give up, you have several common forums and blogs where you can reach me

It is in my interest to find a fully legal way as well. I would be super happy to get the earnings from an asian broker to my bank account, declare them and pay up to 20% (or even more) taxes staying in my country. But as you said it is not allowed, which is kind of stupid because it will bring money to the treasury department.


leave a contact on my PM if that is allowed and if you want

[Duo42]

I can only speak for Germany, but I know for certain that you need at least an office and employees in the country where your company is registered for it to not be taxed in Germany. If you don't have that, your LLC, Ltd or whatever company type you choose is taxed like a German company.

[Black777]

I can only speak for Germany, but I know for certain that you need at least an office and employees in the country where your company is registered for it to not be taxed in Germany. If you don't have that, your LLC, Ltd or whatever company type you choose is taxed like a German company.

It would probably be something similar for Italy as well. That is why I said it is not an easy way to get things done. The costs would make everything not worth it.

[Jogador]

Hi Duo,

do you happen to know what the situtation with asian brokers is in Germany? Is it ok to use them? Are winnings from asian brokers ok/declareable in Germany? If so, are they taxed?

thanks

[Duo42]

Hi Duo,
do you happen to know what the situtation with asian brokers is in Germany? Is it ok to use them? Are winnings from asian brokers ok/declareable in Germany? If so, are they taxed?
thanks

The situation in Germany is really complicated. Based on national law bookies without a German license are considered illegal, but due to the fact that Germany keeps failing at establishing a regulation, they are still tolerated. Sports clubs have sponsorship deals with betting sites that are technically not legal and you will also see ads for them on TV. The financial authorities even collect the 5% betting tax from them.

Asian brokers are therefore gray area as well. If the regulation will ever be accomplished, I'm confident they won't get a license or even apply for it. At the moment, they are not prosecuted and players have not faced any issues using them.

There's no clear answer whether or not you have to pay taxes on winnings from sports betting. Some lawyers have made good points why this shouldn't be the case, but there's no certainty until a court has ruled about this. I'm not aware of any players who had to pay taxes on their sports betting winnings yet. A few years ago, the highest court ruled that Poker winnings from tournaments are taxed.

As you can see, there's a lot of uncertainty. I wouldn't recommend moving to Germany for betting. Most of the professionals I'm in touch with are considering moving to other countries.

[Camma23]

I can only speak for Germany, but I know for certain that you need at least an office and employees in the country where your company is registered for it to not be taxed in Germany. If you don't have that, your LLC, Ltd or whatever company type you choose is taxed like a German company.

yeah man, i think this is normal. Also in Italy it should work like that. But the real point is (at least for me) : this corporate status to do this business can make it legal in countries where it's not as individual business? Some say yes, some say not. But in Italy , as far as I know, there is nobody yet that made it, in other countries yes.

Coming to your last answer : I think situation is preatty similiar to the italian one. For example would you transfer some money from an agent to your german bank account? Here, i think nobody would even try to do it...

[lonnie55]

For example would you transfer some money from an agent to your german bank account? Here, i think nobody would even try to do it...

Depends on the country code. I'd be careful with transfers from non-EU bank accounts.

Other than that, private banks do not care about transfers related to gambling in my experience.

[Peraltabet]

I m from an EU country... but i bet on Latam using Teamviwer / Vpn ( some cases ). I use wallets to manage money... 4 years on business and no problems .

note: don t use bank accounts... all online ... U can say its not legal but unfortunally in my country its impossible to get good profit with the odds of local bookmakers.. The juice that they implemented its surreal.

[Black777]

Depends on the country code. I'd be careful with transfers from non-EU bank accounts.

Other than that, private banks do not care about transfers related to gambling in my experience.

Ehmm what do you mean with "private banks"?
I don't think banks just look if the code of the brokers' bank account is EU or non-EU.
I mean, there are asian brokers using EU bank accounts, but I don't think my bank will stay quite if 10K comes from this EU bank. It is offshore money, so they will report me, won't they?

[Camma23]

Ehmm what do you mean with "private banks"?
I don't think banks just look if the code of the brokers' bank account is EU or non-EU.
I mean, there are asian brokers using EU bank accounts, but I don't think my bank will stay quite if 10K comes from this EU bank. It is offshore money, so they will report me, won't they?

Correct black, if you wan to listen my opinion, better avoid such a move. They only allow us transactions from italian (ADM) bookies. And I doubt EU or non EU bank makes the difference for brokers money

[lonnie55]

Ehmm what do you mean with "private banks"?

Private banks vs banks under public law (e.g. Sparkasse in Germany)

Sparkasse once called me to ask me about a transaction related to Skrill since Paysafe, the sender of the money, was on their blacklist. I explained that the money came from gambling and that was it.

A private bank never even called me to ask me about any transaction related to gambling.

I don't think banks just look if the code of the brokers' bank account is EU or non-EU.

I think it could easily raise red flags if money comes from the Philippines rather than from any bank account within the EU.

I mean, there are asian brokers using EU bank accounts, but I don't think my bank will stay quite if 10K comes from this EU bank. It is offshore money, so they will report me, won't they?

How would they even know it's offshore money if the broker uses a private EU based bank account?

I don't know what your bank does. I just said that in my experience none of the private banks (from Germany and France) ever asked any questions.

And I doubt EU or non EU bank makes the difference for brokers money

Dude, what is "brokers money"? The bank just sees money coming in from some private person within the EU. That's it. It's more risky to receive money from a dedicated gambling company than from a broker in my eyes.

[Duo42]

I m from an EU country... but i bet on Latam using Teamviwer / Vpn ( some cases ). I use wallets to manage money... 4 years on business and no problems .
note: don t use bank accounts... all online ... U can say its not legal but unfortunally in my country its impossible to get good profit with the odds of local bookmakers.. The juice that they implemented its surreal.

How do you go about providing a proof of address?

I don't know abou you, but at some point you want to invest the money you make. It's not really possible to avoid bank accounts altogether if you don't spend all of your money and don't want to leave all your money online.

[Daddy89]

if you are a big winner live in a first world country. canada probably best with tax laws, safety etc.
i would never live in country like mexico/costa rica or any developing/third world countries if i am betting big and making a living with sports betting.

Soo True. Organized crime has grown in recent years, taxes too. But not taxes for online betting.

[Peraltabet]

How do you go about providing a proof of address?

I don't know abou you, but at some point you want to invest the money you make. It's not really possible to avoid bank accounts altogether if you don't spend all of your money and don't want to leave all your money online.

wrong !!
I use friends name accounts & walelts that leave on that country... all in my posession for a litle money and trust.
regarding money pass bank account s ... it s so easy the procedure to not pass in bank accounts . but can t say here on public of course

Thats the only way to be sucessfull on gambling avoiding taxes etc

[Chris89_000]

What about Greece is a good option?

[eath1]

Hei guys, I haven't seen this post for quite a while but it feels nice to see people still commenting on this thread!

As for the research I did, I got the same answer as @CIS did regarding Malta, if you don't gamble for a living it's not taxable.

I also got some questions regarding Austria and it's probably the 'best' country in Europe for gambling. Pinnacle is allowed (you can register on pinnacle.com if you check the list of countries) and regarding taxes, it is in theory not taxed.
Source: 2019 Austrian tax book. https://www.bmf.gv.at/dam/jcr:2d2ebe...019_PDF-UA.pdf

Ctrl+F Gambling and you will find this: Only those incomes that are listed bythe Income Tax Act under any of the types of income are therefore taxable.Gambling and lottery wins, for example, are not taxable; nor are the childcarebenefits or the nursing care allowances


Therefore it is in theory not taxable in Austria.

Cheers.

[lonnie55]

Hei guys, I haven't seen this post for quite a while but it feels nice to see people still commenting on this thread!

As for the research I did, I got the same answer as @CIS did regarding Malta, if you don't gamble for a living it's not taxable.

I also got some questions regarding Austria and it's probably the 'best' country in Europe for gambling. Pinnacle is allowed (you can register on pinnacle.com if you check the list of countries) and regarding taxes, it is in theory not taxed.
Source: 2019 Austrian tax book. https://www.bmf.gv.at/dam/jcr:2d2ebe...019_PDF-UA.pdf

Ctrl+F Gambling and you will find this: Only those incomes that are listed bythe Income Tax Act under any of the types of income are therefore taxable.Gambling and lottery wins, for example, are not taxable; nor are the childcarebenefits or the nursing care allowances


Therefore it is in theory not taxable in Austria.

Cheers.

Well, same here in Germany: In theory gambling is not taxable. But if you ask lawyers, some say this and some say that. There are good arguments for both opinions. In the end, it depends on the local tax authority, the individual case and so on. As mentioned in post #106, there was an interview with an Austrian lawyer who said that professional poker is taxable and that Austrian laws are very similar to German ones.

You were saying in #54 that you were told from "Austria's tax department" (...) that "sports betting winnings were not taxed at all". Would you mind sharing this email (publicly or via PM)? Thanks

[Diginom]

Being a "digital nomad" was an interesting option in pre-corona times... To live in one country for weeks/months. Then move to the next, without having tax residency anywhere. Ok, as a profi bettor you need an address for bookies and banks. So you would not be a "true" baseless digital nomad. I think, a small rented appartment in Malta would do. Pinnacle, Matchbook and Betfair are available there. And you don't even need to apply for the Malta residency, because you don't intend to spend more than 183 days per year there. Just rent it for years, pay the bills, send the bills as address confirmation to whomever wants to see them.

[Duo42]

Being a "digital nomad" was an interesting option in pre-corona times... To live in one country for weeks/months. Then move to the next, without having tax residency anywhere. Ok, as a profi bettor you need an address for bookies and banks. So you would not be a "true" baseless digital nomad. I think, a small rented appartment in Malta would do. Pinnacle, Matchbook and Betfair are available there. And you don't even need to apply for the Malta residency, because you don't intend to spend more than 183 days per year there. Just rent it for years, pay the bills, send the bills as address confirmation to whomever wants to see them.

I have thought about this option as well. Only issue is that Malta could consider you to be a permanent resident if you don't rent out the apartment. I know Germany would.

[User2731]

I propose to relocate Montenegro. Winnings from rates are not taxed. Wonderful nature, cheap real estate.

[Diginom]

But, i got answer from Maltese tax agency. I qoute:
"Under the Gaming Act. no tax is withheld on online gambling winnings. Taxes and fees are collected from the operators, not from the gamblers.
However, any individual who gambles for a living, whether online or not, is obliged to declare the income earned under the Income Tax Act. The income earned in any calendar year should be declared in the tax return to be filed by the end of June of the following year. Therefore, if you carried out the activity of gambling in 2019, you should declare you winnings for the year, together with any other taxable income you might have had, in the tax return to be filed by the end of June 2020."

Maybe I got it wrong, but they only wish you to _declare_ the winnings. Declaring doesn't always mean taxation. But it can be used, for example, to determine the tax rate. Tax rates are pretty low in Malta for low incomes, but from 60K it becomes 35%. So if you won 60K with betting, they will probably tax any further income with 35%, without actually taxing that 60K gambling winnings. Probably...

[Sawyer]

Any country with nice softbookmakers which are slow to move lines.
The only way to make money in sports betting is to place value bets.

[stevenash]

I propose to relocate Montenegro. Winnings from rates are not taxed. Wonderful nature, cheap real estate.

Be careful of those angry Bosnians.

[DGG23]

Nobody suggested Malta? the obvious choice.

english colony like usa