Asian Books friendly Tax Jurisdiction

[flobot]

I have several colleagues from the UK that are betting full time using Asian brokers. The only problem they run into sometimes is banks close their accounts when large sums come from offshore countries.

[ichiro4thehall]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Hopefully you are right about me giving credit unnecessary. Still I'd rather be safe then sorry, especially given that all bank/transfer records are permanent and reported (FATCA). And as slow and dumb local tax auth may be, they only need to catch up once. I'm in Greece btw.

Are you a US citizen living in Greece? I thought FACTA only concerns US citizens.

I know nothing of Greece's tax laws etc. but I would assume with all the economic difficulties the country has had authorities would be happy that a young financially independent person was staying in the country and not moving to other EU countries in search for work. It's not like income tax is the only tax you pay.

As a professional gambler you should have multiple bank accounts and make sure one is kept 'normal' looking where there is a fixed sum deposited into it each month and some normal general expenses paid out from it each month. That way whenever you are requested for your bank details that might be checked for some purpose, say a home loan, you can give this account for them to check. People get into trouble where they declare an income of say 10 000 euros a month yet have total transactions of over 200 000 euros a month from their bank account.

[Motorhead11]

UK is your ideal place imo.

Unlike most countries, bettors are not procecuted in UK as law is targeting illegal books only, bettors are not breaking any law by betting on those books though. In Greece fir example, bettors may even end up in jail for betting on illegal books.

Furthermore, gambling profits are tax free in uk.

Another setup you may think of is a legal entity for placing bets. Not sure which countries allow registration of such companies though. However, seen that Sportmarket is now offering accounts on legal entities appart from individual accounts so assume they have some customers who bet as corporates etc.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Another setup you may think of is a legal entity for placing bets. Not sure which countries allow registration of such companies though. However, seen that Sportmarket is now offering accounts on legal entities appart from individual accounts so assume they have some customers who bet as corporates etc.

That would create new tax problems though - in the UK at least, you'd be liable for corporation tax etc.

[Motorhead11]

That would create new tax problems though - in the UK at least, you'd be liable for corporation tax etc.

Yes, yet many would accept a 10-15% tax on dividents and be able to use gambling profits as they wish. Furthermore, there are ways to minimize or bypass that 15% tax. What is confusing me is which countries allow registration of such companies given that gambling is not consider a taxable transaction.

[Dis28]

Does anyone know how does it goes on malta or ireland?

Because uk will become hard for anyone even EU residents to go there because of brexit, so even if uk its gamblers paradise i suppose that only applies for uk citizens, and i guess most of us arent, or we wouldnt be on this topic, so malta or ireland could be the most gambling friendly countries after uk?
How does taxing winnings work there? Anyone knows?
Thanks!

[lonnie55]

Ireland: http://www.taxandlegal.ie/ITRQ42014.pdf

Conclusion
Other than cases where the gambling is ancillary to an existing
business, it is difficult to conceive of circumstances where
gambling winnings would be subject to income tax. It may be
said that the arm of the tax gatherer reaches far 12 but not as far,
it seems, as the professional gambler. To alter the position, the
Irish courts would need compelling reasons to depart from the
approach adopted by our neighbours. Alternatively, legislative
intervention would be required.

[ichiro4thehall]

Does anyone know how does it goes on malta or ireland?

Because uk will become hard for anyone even EU residents to go there because of brexit, so even if uk its gamblers paradise i suppose that only applies for uk citizens, and i guess most of us arent, or we wouldnt be on this topic, so malta or ireland could be the most gambling friendly countries after uk?
How does taxing winnings work there? Anyone knows?
Thanks!

Ireland will basicallly always have the same laws as the UK on gambling taxation. Malta is a very strange country that has 4 or 5 families running the governemnt and they have used lax gambling laws to increase government revenues. My experience living there was that there was no problem for gamblers, and indeed it was very cool to live alongside the young Scandinavians working for the betting companies! The society is very conservative and closed, howver, and it is not an especialy friendly place to live, compared to say Latin America, wher people are pretty open and friendly almost always.

The truth about this thread though is that if anyone is smart enough to be making enough money gambling that they are worried about tax implications then they would probably already have found their own solutions.

PS The UK position with regards to the freedom of movement within the EU for citizens to come and work and live in the UK has not been settled yet. If anyone wants to come and live and bet in the UK they should do it quickly. There will almost certainly be an amnesty date set that allows any EU citizen currently living in UK to stay under same conditions as pre-Brexit. There is a chance this will be a retrospective date, but most people belive this would be unfair and it will probbaly be a very near future date.

[Dis28]

Very nice post thanks man, but dont assume that guys just for knowing how to have profit gambling, also know about laws concerning gambling and where to move, its not that linear and simple

Lately, lots of countries got laws against free gambling market, restricting bookmakers available etc, which means many people who where profitable before 'bad home country regulation' (of course small percentage of total gamblers, but no doubts there are professionals who got hit by this changes), this people who did this has their only income will possibly remain profitable in the short/long run but need to change jurisdiction, its not as simple as it looks on first look, its just not as simple as ok so now my country is banning ' my job' so i just let go and go live somewhere legal tomorrow

Theres more on that, taxes, monthly expenses, difficuly of opening bank account because as a gambler youre the same as 'unemployed' no job contract, lots of pros and cons on the most obvious countries, theres no perfect place

[Jogador]

Ireland will basicallly always have the same laws as the UK on gambling taxation. Malta is a very strange country that has 4 or 5 families running the governemnt and they have used lax gambling laws to increase government revenues. My experience living there was that there was no problem for gamblers, and indeed it was very cool to live alongside the young Scandinavians working for the betting companies! The society is very conservative and closed, howver, and it is not an especialy friendly place to live, compared to say Latin America, wher people are pretty open and friendly almost always.

The truth about this thread though is that if anyone is smart enough to be making enough money gambling that they are worried about tax implications then they would probably already have found their own solutions.

PS The UK position with regards to the freedom of movement within the EU for citizens to come and work and live in the UK has not been settled yet. If anyone wants to come and live and bet in the UK they should do it quickly. There will almost certainly be an amnesty date set that allows any EU citizen currently living in UK to stay under same conditions as pre-Brexit. There is a chance this will be a retrospective date, but most people belive this would be unfair and it will probbaly be a very near future date.

Well in a way I have found some solution. Corporate accounts as mentioned above by Motorhead11 (\m/) are possible with Spormarket (I assume other asians offer it too). Malta based corporate entity is one choice for that. Comes at around 5K EUR yearly (double if holding co is also formed) in expenses plus 5% (35% upfront 30% refunded) corporate winnings tax (0% on dividends). But from my research I haven't been convinced by the incorporation service providers and or other aspects of it (long story). Truth is, this would be a last resort choice.

Ideal case would be to find a jurisdiction where betting as an individual (and not corporate entity) would be implication free. Thus this thread. And it sounds like Ireland could be looked into.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Might be worth looking at the Isle of Man and Channel Islands. Since they're not in the UK, Pinnacle allow accounts from there.

Dunno their gambling tax situation, but would expect it to be the same as UK laws.

[ichiro4thehall]

Well in a way I have found some solution. Corporate accounts as mentioned above by Motorhead11 (\m/) are possible with Spormarket (I assume other asians offer it too). Malta based corporate entity is one choice for that. Comes at around 5K EUR yearly (double if holding co is also formed) in expenses plus 5% (35% upfront 30% refunded) corporate winnings tax (0% on dividends). But from my research I haven't been convinced by the incorporation service providers and or other aspects of it (long story). Truth is, this would be a last resort choice.

Ideal case would be to find a jurisdiction where betting as an individual (and not corporate entity) would be implication free. Thus this thread. And it sounds like Ireland could be looked into.

Years ago I looked at the corporate route. I can't remember why I dismissed the idea exactly but there were a lot of cons and it basically puts you on a radar you are currently not on, you pay tax you don't need to, and I'm sure the lawyers I spoke to could not give a 100 percent guarantee what I was doing was legal.

It would probably be a much better option for you to invest in property or a small local business. There are always people looking for silent partners to invest. This way your official occupation is lamdlord or small business owner and you can show some legitamite earnings in your bank account.

[ichiro4thehall]

Very nice post thanks man, but dont assume that guys just for knowing how to have profit gambling, also know about laws concerning gambling and where to move, its not that linear and simple

Lately, lots of countries got laws against free gambling market, restricting bookmakers available etc, which means many people who where profitable before 'bad home country regulation' (of course small percentage of total gamblers, but no doubts there are professionals who got hit by this changes), this people who did this has their only income will possibly remain profitable in the short/long run but need to change jurisdiction, its not as simple as it looks on first look, its just not as simple as ok so now my country is banning ' my job' so i just let go and go live somewhere legal tomorrow

Theres more on that, taxes, monthly expenses, difficuly of opening bank account because as a gambler youre the same as 'unemployed' no job contract, lots of pros and cons on the most obvious countries, theres no perfect place

I didn't mean to offend with that post, Sorry if you were, man.

Opening bank accounts is definitely a problem for gamblers. That's why it's best to have some other source of income like i talked about above in my last post.

[Dis28]

No offense taken i was just saying it cause its true, my english also not that good
Thanks for your comment!

[Jogador]

Are you a US citizen living in Greece? I thought FACTA only concerns US citizens.

I know nothing of Greece's tax laws etc. but I would assume with all the economic difficulties the country has had authorities would be happy that a young financially independent person was staying in the country and not moving to other EU countries in search for work. It's not like income tax is the only tax you pay.

As a professional gambler you should have multiple bank accounts and make sure one is kept 'normal' looking where there is a fixed sum deposited into it each month and some normal general expenses paid out from it each month. That way whenever you are requested for your bank details that might be checked for some purpose, say a home loan, you can give this account for them to check. People get into trouble where they declare an income of say 10 000 euros a month yet have total transactions of over 200 000 euros a month from their bank account.

Sorry my mistake. I meant the Common Reporting Standard (CRS) of OECD which applies to my region (basically equals FATCA). I confused the two.

[Camma23]

Well in a way I have found some solution. Corporate accounts as mentioned above by Motorhead11 (\m/) are possible with Spormarket (I assume other asians offer it too). Malta based corporate entity is one choice for that. Comes at around 5K EUR yearly (double if holding co is also formed) in expenses plus 5% (35% upfront 30% refunded) corporate winnings tax (0% on dividends). But from my research I haven't been convinced by the incorporation service providers and or other aspects of it (long story). Truth is, this would be a last resort choice
Ideal case would be to find a jurisdiction where betting as an individual (and not corporate entity) would be implication free. Thus this thread. And it sounds like Ireland could be looked into.

Someone else have tried (and hoepuflly solved our common problem) the “corporate way”? I’d be interested to hear asI live too in a non friendly country with betting and my profit comes from asian brokers

[pythonic]

I thought about a UK based Ltd. a few years ago but concluded that it would be pointless at least for me eventually.
I think in most cases the corporate route will be complicated and expensive and unless you have a really big enterprise where for example you need to hire people anyway the straightforward way of finding a place with friendly regulations is preferable.

[Camma23]

I thought about a UK based Ltd. a few years ago but concluded that it would be pointless at least for me eventually.
I think in most cases the corporate route will be complicated and expensive and unless you have a really big enterprise where for example you need to hire people anyway the straightforward way of finding a place with friendly regulations is preferable.

but finding a place with friendly regulations is most cases mean you must move from your native country, doesn’t ? And this is not in my projects

[eath1]

I researched about this last year and I ended up moving to Austria. This is the post I did: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...s-betting.html

Pros: Lax jurisdiction towards sports betting - I was able to create a pinnacle account.
Also, I sent an email to Austrian's tax department and I was told sports betting winnings were not taxed at all.


From the research I did I can tell you that in most countries dedicating yourself to sports betting is a grey area since it's not considered a job, so I ended up going to the country where I found sports betting was 'whiter' in a way.
AFAIK Canada was a pretty good country for sports bettors aswell(no taxes, pinnacle allowed etc) but you can't move to most countries as a sports bettor without a job.

I wish Pinnacle was allowed in Ireland or UK to be honest, I would've moved there but no pinny registration allowed and I prefer having my own account instead of an agents'.

Anyways, if you find information of any other good country within the EU hit me up since I will likely end up moving somewhere this year too (taxes for sports betting in my country are quite high )

edit: Since I saw some people mentioning Malta I want to say that I researched about Malta aswell and from the ppl I contacted living there it seemed like they didnt give a fck about taxing sports betting, but I contacted Malta's tax department and I was told you had to pay taxes from sports betting's winnings, so it's probably not a good idea to move there if you win big amounts.

[lonnie55]

Also, I sent an email to Austrian's tax department and I was told sports betting winnings were not taxed at all.

Would you mind sharing this email (or send it via PM)? Thanks

[Camma23]

I researched about this last year and I ended up moving to Austria. This is the post I did: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...s-betting.html
Anyways, if you find information of any other good country within the EU hit me up since I will likely end up moving somewhere this year too (taxes for sports betting in my country are quite high )

at least you can legally pay taxes from asia profit in your country...in mine can't do the same..so look at the good point

p.s. i'd be Interested too to read that tax office document. thanks

[lonnie55]

What's your home country, by the way?

[ZAMAZA]

In Spain,

*gaming revenues are taxed, 19/47% is paid according to income segments / scales.

*The state lotteries pay 20% from 10000 euros
*The professional game is not regulated as an activity
*It is only allowed to offer game to licensed operators, preventing and blocking "illegal" websites
*The pro player has no national alternative in terms of exchanges or sportsbook Pinnacle type so he seeks to access some known Asian brokers and for now his tax obligation is to declare that income.

The problem comes that there is a legislative possibility to regulate that will prosecute and punish the player who accesses illegal play and therefore will further strengthen the possibilities of pro play within the Spanish territory

Of course everything comes to consider sports betting as in most jurisdictions comparable to purely recreational game models.

I live in Spain.
Spain is a socialist country.
Taxes are "the national sport".

[pythonic]

eath1, could you quote the reply you got from the maltese tax authorities?
I'm interested in Malta as well because I need unrestricted access to the betfair exchange.
As to your situation, I thought you decided for Austria, which seems like a good option in your situation?

[Jogador]

I researched about this last year and I ended up moving to Austria. This is the post I did: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...s-betting.html

Pros: Lax jurisdiction towards sports betting - I was able to create a pinnacle account.
Also, I sent an email to Austrian's tax department and I was told sports betting winnings were not taxed at all.


From the research I did I can tell you that in most countries dedicating yourself to sports betting is a grey area since it's not considered a job, so I ended up going to the country where I found sports betting was 'whiter' in a way.
AFAIK Canada was a pretty good country for sports bettors aswell(no taxes, pinnacle allowed etc) but you can't move to most countries as a sports bettor without a job.

I wish Pinnacle was allowed in Ireland or UK to be honest, I would've moved there but no pinny registration allowed and I prefer having my own account instead of an agents'.

Anyways, if you find information of any other good country within the EU hit me up since I will likely end up moving somewhere this year too (taxes for sports betting in my country are quite high )

edit: Since I saw some people mentioning Malta I want to say that I researched about Malta aswell and from the ppl I contacted living there it seemed like they didnt give a fck about taxing sports betting, but I contacted Malta's tax department and I was told you had to pay taxes from sports betting's winnings, so it's probably not a good idea to move there if you win big amounts.

So much for me researching the forum correctly.. Thanks for the post. Does what you say about no tax on winnings in Austria apply also to winnings made on Asian Brokers or is it only for licensed bookies (if Austria's betting market is licensed)?

[Black777]

I researched about this last year and I ended up moving to Austria. This is the post I did: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...s-betting.html


Pros: Lax jurisdiction towards sports betting - I was able to create a pinnacle account.
Also, I sent an email to Austrian's tax department and I was told sports betting winnings were not taxed at all.


From the research I did I can tell you that in most countries dedicating yourself to sports betting is a grey area since it's not considered a job, so I ended up going to the country where I found sports betting was 'whiter' in a way.
AFAIK Canada was a pretty good country for sports bettors aswell(no taxes, pinnacle allowed etc) but you can't move to most countries as a sports bettor without a job.

I wish Pinnacle was allowed in Ireland or UK to be honest, I would've moved there but no pinny registration allowed and I prefer having my own account instead of an agents'.

Anyways, if you find information of any other good country within the EU hit me up since I will likely end up moving somewhere this year too (taxes for sports betting in my country are quite high )

edit: Since I saw some people mentioning Malta I want to say that I researched about Malta aswell and from the ppl I contacted living there it seemed like they didnt give a fck about taxing sports betting, but I contacted Malta's tax department and I was told you had to pay taxes from sports betting's winnings, so it's probably not a good idea to move there if you win big amounts.

I have been looking for this same matter since last October (in the wrong forums I guess , I am really new to this one because it is not even accessible from my country).
So, from what I understand you were able to open a Pinnacle account because you are now resident in a non restricted country despite you are from a restricted one. Is that right? So is it possible to have a pinnacle account using an ID from a restricted country (e.g. Italian passport)?
Hope you can share a little bit more of your experience. Are you using Austrian banks for your betting transactions?
If anyone of the experts on this forum can answer my questions it would be great
Thank you

[Black777]

I researched about this last year and I ended up moving to Austria. This is the post I did: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...s-betting.html

Pros: Lax jurisdiction towards sports betting - I was able to create a pinnacle account.
Also, I sent an email to Austrian's tax department and I was told sports betting winnings were not taxed at all.


From the research I did I can tell you that in most countries dedicating yourself to sports betting is a grey area since it's not considered a job, so I ended up going to the country where I found sports betting was 'whiter' in a way.
AFAIK Canada was a pretty good country for sports bettors aswell(no taxes, pinnacle allowed etc) but you can't move to most countries as a sports bettor without a job.

I wish Pinnacle was allowed in Ireland or UK to be honest, I would've moved there but no pinny registration allowed and I prefer having my own account instead of an agents'.

Anyways, if you find information of any other good country within the EU hit me up since I will likely end up moving somewhere this year too (taxes for sports betting in my country are quite high )

edit: Since I saw some people mentioning Malta I want to say that I researched about Malta aswell and from the ppl I contacted living there it seemed like they didnt give a fck about taxing sports betting, but I contacted Malta's tax department and I was told you had to pay taxes from sports betting's winnings, so it's probably not a good idea to move there if you win big amounts.

Finally, I have been looking for the same thing since last September. I guess I was looking in the wrong forum there are so many information on this one.
So, you were able to open a Pinnacle account with an ID of your home country (which I suppose is a restricted one according to Pinnacle). Is that right?
Could anyone confirm that it is possible to open a Pinnacle account using an ID of a restricted country (e.g. an Italian passport) provided that you verify your residency in a country where Pinnacle is allowed (e.g. I provide proof of address in Austria)?

Are you using an Austrian bank account for your transactions?
I hope you can share your experience further with us

[SBE]

Could anyone confirm that it is possible to open a Pinnacle account using an ID of a restricted country (e.g. an Italian passport) provided that you verify your residency in a country where Pinnacle is allowed (e.g. I provide proof of address in Austria)?

I hope this should be OK. The bookmaker is not (probably) considering your country of origin (if your passport is issued by a bookmaker's restricted country), but your real physical place you are living at- and you can provide with a proof of it (a bill for any service you may pay there with your -Austrian in this case- address).

And as for the bank account - yes, I would also use only an Austrian bank account, for transfers to/from the bookmaker. Btw, an electronic wallet would be a better option, too, in my opinion...Also having the same austrian address having at the wallet.

[Limited]

Things can get more complicated

CITIZENSHIP (your passport)
RESIDENCY (where you live, your temporary or permanent address that you are actually living in)
TAX RESIDENCY ( you may be Italian living in Austria but still Italian tax resident, in this case you need to pay Italian taxes and potentially also Austrian ones, depends on your status and if two countries have a bilateral tax agreements)

[Limited]

Bookies will open/allow you an account only based on your residency. Permanent or temporary doesn't really matter. What matters is where you actually live and if you can prove it with some kind of utility bill or similar. Bookies also mostly don't care about your citizenship, excluding USA where the citizenship matters and ban is mostly based on being an US citizen. Bookies also don't care about your tax obligations. That's your problem.

Being a resident of some foreigner country doesn't yet mean that you only need to pay taxes to that country. To remove your obligation of paying taxes to your own original country, you must transfer also tax residency to the country that you currently live. It means basically that country abroad where you are living becomes your permanent residency and so you can only pay taxes to that country. Otherwise you need to pay taxes to both countries. At least this kind of regulation have some European countries. Not sure how is it in US or other places. But so far as I know, it is not so easy to escape the tax obligations of your original country even becoming a resident abroad.

[randomuser]

In regarding of UK, what if I play with an unregulated by the UKGC bookmaker? Is it legal? Do I have to pay takex on winnings eventually?

[dufresne]

In regarding of UK, what if I play with an unregulated by the UKGC bookmaker? Is it legal? Do I have to pay takex on winnings eventually?

i'm not sure anyone can provide a definite answer to this...

[HeeeHAWWWW]

In regarding of UK, what if I play with an unregulated by the UKGC bookmaker? Is it legal? Do I have to pay takex on winnings eventually?

Doesn't matter for taxes. Income in the UK is only taxable if it's considered a "trade", and the tax authorities have long specified that gambling winnings aren't.


"The fact that a taxpayer has a system by which they place their bets, or that they are sufficiently successful to earn a living by gambling does not make their activities a trade."

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-manual/bim22017

[dufresne]

Doesn't matter for taxes. Income in the UK is only taxable if it's considered a "trade", and the tax authorities have long specified that gambling winnings aren't.

"The fact that a taxpayer has a system by which they place their bets, or that they are sufficiently successful to earn a living by gambling does not make their activities a trade."
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...anual/bim22017

thanks heeehawwwww - that covers the tax part by the looks. the 'legality' issue i've heard mention that the authorities are only interested in the offshore bookies themselves. i'd be interested how anyone knows for sure that no laws are broken (in the UK) by an individual betting offshore...