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.Comment -
Understood. And I really do appreciate your sympathy- it means more than you know. I appreciate that a lot.
And I appreciate that there's not much more that can be done to help me- I know you guys have tried and I have thoroughly messed things up. I still appreciate you guys.
I will part with a point for anyone looking at this case: please look at the emails from Steve as to why I'm not being paid the money I deposited on that day I cashed out a lesser amount. My account was in the positive. But if you tally up the only other account I used in the USA before they left the USA market, I was actually down 2.7 bitcoins. So I'm not a winning account and I should be due my deposits back in a fair world. I hope people see that who are looking at this case, no matter how badly I screwed this up.
EDIT: From my friend who advised me to make a point about the old account being so far in the negative and losing all my uber money day in and day out:
Quote: "polite but firm. u are a lifetime 0.9 (actually 2.3 if i don't get my deposits back) btc loser on cloudbet. in similar situations they have paid ppl the balance, bigger balances, and closed the account. in their communications with regards to your account, they claimed you were a winner and that is one of the reasons for their decision. just keep repeating this"
"u can even post that text of mine word for in quotes and say "a friend who is giving me advice on this situation said to post this"
Again I appreciate all the sentiments because this has been more than a learning lesson- this is something I will never forget. I will never trust a book again.Last edited by DoubleRedDragon; 10-12-20, 03:50 AM.Comment -
Doublereddragon.... The irony here is that because you chose to make this so public, cloudbet is much less likely to pay you anything they might have paid you out of goodwill because of precedent.
They know that if they pay you, they are setting a public precedent of paying anyone who violates their T&Cs in the future. If you weren't so public about this, and you were just dealing with them one on one, then they could quietly pay you if that is what they chose with no reprocussions - but you have sealed your own fate by your ridiculous rantings and aggressive behavior.
PS - I just read your post at the other site. I feel for you. Please get help. I am convinced that getting this 15k from Cloudbet is probably the worst thing that could happen to you right now - you are not equipped to deal with it right now. Get help.Last edited by vanzack; 10-13-20, 09:44 AM.Comment -
I'm fine man. It's not your judgement on whether or not I gamble too much for my own good to be paid what I feel is mine (i sent it to them that day, my mistake obviously. I hope they re-look at the case given my apologies about mis-stating facts)
Don't we all gamble too much? I ran up a balance on Cloudbet and if I gamble too much I deserve to get it not sent back to me?
Look at all these VIP emails. They got me hooked on the site 4 years ago and then told USA customers they had to leave , so I made a new account 18 months later , the last time i did anything on the site was january 2019 then i made an account in I think June of 2020 and used VPN. Then I won some money, withdrew, and wound up re-depositing a few times, and then the last deposit has been confiscated (67 BCH or about $15,000 has been confiscated minus a .26 bitcoin mis-grade).
Here's an imgur post with some VIP emails like below on the first account from VIP account manager Andy
https://imgur.com/a/UyE5lng
Last edited by DoubleRedDragon; 10-13-20, 08:35 PM.Comment -
If I were them I would make you pay them 50,000 dollars back for scamming and cheating. You should also be blacklisted from every single offshore book there is. People like you are the ones that make it difficult for everyone else.I'm fine man. It's not your judgement on whether or not I gamble too much for my own good to be paid what I feel is mine (i sent it to them that day, my mistake obviously. I hope they re-look at the case given my apologies about mis-stating facts)
Don't we all gamble too much? I ran up a balance on Cloudbet and if I gamble too much I deserve to get it not sent back to me?
Look at all these VIP emails. They got me hooked on the site 4 years ago and then told USA customers they had to leave , so I made a new account 18 months later , the last time i did anything on the site was january 2019 then i made an account in I think June of 2020 and used VPN. Then I won some money, withdrew, and wound up re-depositing a few times, and then the last deposit has been confiscated (67 BCH or about $15,000 has been confiscated minus a .26 bitcoin mis-grade).
Here's an imgur post with some VIP emails like below on the first account from VIP account manager Andy
https://imgur.com/a/UyE5lngComment -
This is absolutely spot on. All of us who have done this for a while the honest way have had tense moments where our credentials/legitimacy/intentions have been called into question, because books think that we're all like this absolute tool who started this thread and has been crying an increasingly pathetic river of tears. To hell with him...Last edited by Stumpage; 10-13-20, 10:51 PM.Comment -
Thread title has to be changed now though, right?Cloudbet have not refuted the OPs claims to SBR despite assuring us a manger would come back to us days ago.
The OP says he can supply proof of being in Mexico on the day this occurred.
Cloudbet say this is not true but they have not supplied any proof to refute his claim or back up their own.
For now, Cloudbet deserve the shade OP is throwing their way.
Would be easy for them to back up their claims... if they really can. But they have not
Comment -
We all don't gamble too much. You gamble too much. And as the posters said above, you are part of the problem that makes it harder on all of us. So why should anyone here - who you make it harder to do what we want to do legitimately - care about your lies?Comment -
Despite your clear intention of getting around the rules, if you would have handled this behind the scenes with SBR, im fairly confident you would have gotten paid.
Nothing books hate more in a dispute is running and posting on a forum about it. Now, after your admitted lies, and behavior, theres next to no chance you are paid because all it will do is show players they can do what you did and get paidComment -
If cloudbet is truly doing this due to legal ramifications than they should not keep the funds right? Shouldn’t they donate to charity or something and provide proof? But they won’t because it’s not about that. They just want the money.
Absolutely ridiculous they are keeping his money and people defending them. They could literally flip a switch and block US IPs but they don’t. If you leave the front door of your house open and go on vacation and get robbed the insurance company don’t pay you. You have a duty to make an attempt to protect yourself. They not only don’t do this they literally market to US players.
I agree with OP be careful with cloudbet. This is some shady ass behavior.Comment -
I couldnt read all of this.
Why are they keeping his deposits?Comment -
There are levels of escalation. If you start at volume 11, it's too late to back down to 5. This guy started at 11 when maybe 5 would have worked. Maybe it wouldn't have, but now he'll never know.
I'm not as optimistic that it would have worked because, at the end of the day, he created multiple accounts with the intention of circumventing the no-US policy he was previously informed about. But it is always best to try to work things out amicably first.Comment -
Correct, they should void all his betting and, in most cases, return at least the last deposit if not all deposits, if he is found to be from a banned jurisdiction.
They have not kept his deposits. His withdrawals already surpassed his deposits on this account so he is owed no more and there are no "funds to keep".
In short, the OPs real objection is that he felt it was unfair to take $25K worth of deposits in one day and not refund what was left of those. Instead of looking at the account history in it's entirety.
I don't know if SBR could have ever convinced Cloudbet to come around to that way of thinking and refund the $15k that was left when they locked the account, but as others have said, that was the only real chance to see any money and OP really needed to act nice instead of angry to garner sympathy for that idea. Attacking pretty much ruined any chances he had in this case..Comment -
Oh, well they cant "lose" money to a player who broke the rules, can they?
Yeah they pick and chose who broke the rule, but still that happens.Comment -
That's why I was careful saying what they should do with deposits.
In general when adjudicating these sort of things bodies like IBAS will follow the line that "the player will not profit from intentional wrong doing". And if the book has broken their license rules and profited from it, "it's up to the regulator to impose a fine, not reward the player instead"..Comment -
look, i know the situation is not EXACTLY the same. however, it is similar. and there are points about that case that actually HELP me. the other guy was a lifetime winner, he deposited 150btc i believe and was up 180btc. im a lifetime LOSER. so my case is actually stronger than the other guy on that point. my case is weaker on the point that i already had an account, i fully admit that and have come clear 100% with all the information accurate now. sure, i broke that TOS in addition. however, overall my case is much stronger than the 330btc guy and i cant understand why he got paid and i didnt. does cloudbet have liquidity problems? have they signed a wallet with a large balance in a while? i truly cannot understand and the community should be starting to ask these questions as wellYou always claim the 330btc situation is the same as yours but you cannot be more wrong.
You have been banned years ago and knew you are not allowed to play. But still you made another account and played again, that's just stupid.The other guy only had his 1 account and then the problem came up.
See the difference?
________________________________________
Still no word from Cloudbet. I've ceased flaming and apologized for presenting mis-leading and false facts about the case. Now with the updated facts awaiting further review of the case from team Cloudbet and really hoping we can come to a resolution. I still believe precedent from past cases should play a role given the new facts presented above in the case. Awaiting word from Cloudbet, thank you for those supporting this case to this point.
Note: i want to clarify that I've never once been banned from cloudbet. They asked for documents on the first account, I didn't send them because I don't like sending documents. 2 years later I made another account and here we are.Last edited by DoubleRedDragon; 10-17-20, 10:17 AM.Comment -
Not to mention, his case is not stronger whatsoever. And he knows this, which is why he hid so many facts. Once you’ve already been punished for breaking a restricted country rule, you’re depositing again at your own peril. It’s really that simple. I understand why he wants everyone to believe that it’s stronger but it’s not.Comment -
My point is that he might not even have a case because we don't know how many accounts he really had.
He disclosed the details of two accounts, his current one and some account he opened two years ago. He said Cloudbet has been his favorite book all along, so he may even have had more accounts and could be up in total, not down as he claims.
As he lost his credibility we must at least assume this option.Comment -
Ya he has no case. He keeps saying his case is stronger, and things like "They got me hooked on the site 2 years ago and then told USA customers they had to leave , so I made a new account 18 months later ", "since ive had other accts im actually down lifetime i believe, not sure on exact results but ive def lost on other accts too,", "It was my mistake to make another account but I loved the Cloudbet software and I was a loyal customer,"
He keeps saying anything and everything to glorify his case. The guy has no integrity. As if I'm talking like him now:
Yep! As you can see! Clear as day this guy efxes DoubleRedDragon etc has been a nuisance! Not only does he lie and defame others in the process, but he attempts to steal from websites too!
I can't even do it properly because I'm not that sick in the head. But really, this case is open and shut. He's just wasting his time at this point. Great point by lonnie about who knows how many accounts he has had. Who could find out what he's up or down? Not that it even matters. But he actually keeps stating that, and his monkey math flies in the face of everything he has said.
I feel good about the fact that I stood out for Cloudbet now and called out this guy, or else his charade would be continuing over at the other site and here also. There was a lot of support, and he was only FORCED to tell the truth amidst the outlining that showed who and what he was. Let's not get it twisted that this psychopath actually came ahead and told the full story because of the guilt he felt. He was found out and called out by me, and fought it tooth and nail by being as childish and demeaning during the process as possible.
To DoubleRedDragon:
Go head your head in shame dude. Just leave. If you have a case, TELL IT TO CLOUDBET. STOP POSTING. STOP WASTING EVERYONES TIME.
NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID IN ANY OF YOUR POSTS ADDS UP, AND YOU LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT.Comment -
Update: I have emailed Cloudbet from my old email with my documents and also from the new email with the updated case information. Continuing to await them to look at the updated facts and hoping that the precedent for previous cases is in my favor which does seem to be the case; especially considering point #4 being that my total losses and wins add up to me being in profit. This would mean that the account balance would be 67 BCH (a withdrawal for 33 BCH and one for 34 BCH) minus the .26 bitcoin mis-grade (this really shouldn't be THIS hard to figure out) would be the account balance. I would really appreciate the update as I have spent countless hours uploading evidence to support the facts since the trust level is low at this point which is understandable. Appreciate any updates from Cloudbet on the case as I have been trying for weeks to get in contact about the denied cashouts and evaporated deposits for the around $15,000 in BCH (67 BCH) minus .26 bitcoin mis-grade ($3,000).Appreciate all the support from the community- you guys have been extra special in helping with this. Regardless of my location, the previous cases ruled on by Cloudbet could play precedent in updating the case with the facts and evidence provided.I am also curious why others aren't asking for proof of liquidity since this hasn't been done for almost two years. Are there liquidity problems? I'm curious why others aren't asking about this as well.Comment -
Dude you are so weird. You have no support from the community. I know that you spammed this on Bitcointalk as well, but you're an albatross as evidenced by all of the people who've removed their support of your flag and called you out for being scum.
Please go away.Comment -
Here's a statement from the 330btc case from a little less than 2 years ago- which I believe was an even weaker case than mine. Here they talk about awarding the balance back to the player- this account was a winning account, and in fact I am a losing player on the site. This is why I believe case precedent is in my favor in the case of the $15,000 67 BCH account balance evaporation minus the $3,000 (.26 bitcoin) mis-grade. Please see what they said here:
Hi all,
There has been some discontent in the forums and we would like to take this opportunity to clear a few issues up.
Firstly, please be reminded that Cloudbet does NOT accept any USA players.
USA players are blocked from registering accounts, and are blocked from making bets. If any player from USA attempts to make an account, they see a message saying USA players are prohibited and are not able to sign up.
To reiterate, players from USA are NOT allowed on Cloudbet.
If we have strong reason to believe that a player has deliberately and willingly circumvented our terms of service by connecting from USA (or another restricted territory), we freeze their account while we conduct an investigation, and ask the player to provide documentation on their residency. Please note that this is only when we strongly suspect that a player has connected from USA, ie, there is specific evidence to suggest this.
In most cases, the player is cooperative and provides us with accurate documentation about their account and residency. If they are a USA resident, we close their account permanently, and return their account balance. This has been the case with several vocal users in the forum. Sometimes this can take some time, as every case is slightly different, but is always resolved eventually provided the player furnishes us with accurate information.
If they are connecting from a non-restricted country, we reopen their account and they can resume using their account without limitation.
Please note that in all cases where the player has cooperated, they have received their entire account balance, and had their accounts closed only if they were connecting from a prohibited jurisdiction (or there was a separate unrelated issue). If any forum members in this situation would come forward and confirm receipt of their account balances in full, this would be appreciated.
However - on rare occasions, the player is NOT cooperative and provides us with deliberately falsified or fraudulent information. In these cases, our investigations are significantly more complicated and time consuming.
There is one specific case that has received a lot of attention from the community - Swofty - as the dollar amount is particularly large. Here is our comment on the case:
- As we have a duty of privacy to all of our players, we are limited in what we can share. The player may have shared some details, but we are not able to share any specifics or personal data.
- That said, we can share definitively that the player has knowingly and deliberately provided untruthful, falsified and fraudulent information to both Cloudbet and the community.
- The account holder is NOT the person that he/she states it is, nor are they in the location they state.
- The player also knowingly and deliberately circumvented our terms of service by connecting from a prohibited jurisdiction.
- The reason the player has not been paid yet is entirely to do with them circumventing our terms of service and providing falsified and fraudulent information, and nothing to do with our bitcoin liquidity (more on that below).
- As the customer provided us with definitively falsified information, we suggested they reach out to Curacao Egaming - with whom we hold a licence - for assistance. This is the correct escalation for any player issues.
- We intend to resolve this issue in a manner completely fair to everyone once we receive truthful and accurate information from the player.
- It appears as if the player is now cooperating, so we hope to have a resolution to this case soon.
We have been encouraged by the way the community has responded to rally behind the player and help hold Cloudbet accountable, however in this case the player has not been truthful with the community. We encourage the player to share a more accurate story.
Separately, concerns have been raised about Cloudbet's ability to service the player's withdrawal immediately. You needn’t be concerned - we hold enough funds to cover all of our player balances several times over, and we would never accept a bet that we could not pay in full immediately. We have been around since 2013 and have always celebrated our largest winners, and paid extremely promptly.
We would like to address this in the way requested by the community -- a signed message from a wallet that holds sufficient funds to cover any liabilities that may be due to this player.
We have signed a message from a wallet holding ~1157 BTC. All outputs spent to this wallet are from wallets that belong to us, and had not moved in over a year (we sent them to a single wallet for the purpose of this exercise) so they are not newly acquired coins. We would be happy to sign another message from any of the source wallets to prove ownership if required.
Wallet: 16vk7DahVgj4VsfKKdr1pG3QJ9FvzXpdJN
Message: cloudbet.com // no USA players allowed
Signature: HxO5QwkA/UNVePahBUzYgWL4Zz5syTC1H6/LeHICsvW0MYG9Q+PgOjNbzVXgXsLbadzFO2wLlz2 5nsbaXkeTXo4=
You can verify the above message in your bitcoin client, or by using the web interface here
I hope that addresses the community's immediate concerns. If anybody has any further questions or follow-up, please feel free to contact us directly via our support channels, or post a reply in this thread and we will do our best to address them in a timely manner.
Once more, to reiterate, Cloudbet does NOT accept USA players.
Thanks for your continued support, patience, and diligence.
The Cloudbet Team
Cloudbet hasn't shown proof of liquidity in about 2 years. Why aren't others asking these same questions? The community should be extremely curious about this as well.
I am further awaiting any updates on the case from team Cloudbet. I will keep the thread updated, however I have not received any response from Curacao gaming or Cloudbet in weeks, especially after presenting the updated facts and coming forth under my own accord to the community with provable facts with evidence, as some is listed above and will update as more info comes out.
Total account balance on the day was around $25,000 in bitcoin cash sent in the 24 hour period, and a $15,000 (67 BCH) cashout minus the $3,000 (.26 bitcoin) mis-grade which shouldn't be as hard as it has been to figure out.
Will keep the community updated and appreciate your continued support.Comment -
Fair play. And I'm being cooperative, the guy wasn't truthful either in the beginning. I can't believe I did what I did with being dishonest, I am being cooperative but zero word from Curacao gaming since the beginning, never a response except to reach out to operator, askgambler's refused to take the case which were the two mediation places chosen by Cloudbet.
I have been awaiting response from Cloudbet since updating the facts presented and still nothing. And if the precedent were true, why did they pay him out and say they award balances when they didn't for me? It's not congruent.
Still awaiting patiently but I wanted to add that note to the thread since I never did, just so people can see what I'm saying about the past cases. Not sure what else I can do to cooperate, have been emailing them for weeks slowly here and there with updated facts, trying my best to cooperate.
Again apologize if overstepping bounds, attempting to watch my step at this point, slowed any attacks and ceased blaming. Now just awaiting word from Cloudbet and understand these things take time. Doing everything I can to cooperate, would have much preferred a resolution through SBR.Comment -
That statement basically says they won't penalize people who co-operate, as I read it.
It's actually the first really helpful thing toward making a case for you that you have posted in all these 7 pages.
You should quote that to them and say you want to fully co-operate. And same to the Curacao regulator.
And just talk about that. Only that.
Posting that they need to prove liquidity is not going to help convince them you are being open honest and want to co-operate..Comment -
OK, taking your advice. Haven't gotten an email back except canned response, but I will send them this with a statement about being honest, co-operating, and doing whatever they need me to do in order to co-operate.
Always appreciate the wisdom and common sense from you and SBR- which I severely lack. I have been consulting another friend as well who has been guiding me to take a completely different approach- since my previous approach was insane to put it lightly.
Note: Also apologize for the redundancy of any of my posts or this case. I'm tired of it too.
Thank you...Comment -
I've included some highlights of key incongruencies from a case from 2 years ago until now. NO idea why they decide not to pay account balances all of a sudden when they clearly state this is something they "always do" with cooperation, even though right off the bat they were trying to deny me any cashouts. If a book takes action from you for 11 weeks while losing, processing deposits and cashouts, then decides on the 12th week to ban you only after you deposit a large amount and then evaporate the balance- that is basically what happened here, so with these highlighted points I believe my case is stronger than ever to receive back my deposits into the account.
I believe the higher-ups haven't looked at the mis-grade error on their part which caused the negative btc balance and I think once this is cleared up it should be clear as day to rule in favor of paying the account balance- I have confidence that Cloudbet will accept my offer to co-operate to come to a resolution and expediate the process.
Thank you to you all for following this case and your continued support of paying player balances when no malicious intent or abuse has incurred and full cooperation in clearing up any falsities and whatever else is needed to come to a full resolution for both parties. Please get back in touch with me asap Cloudbet. I have not heard from you in quite some time and there are a lot of new facts presented, thank you ever so kindly. Please see below highlighted points from one of the past cases which sets a precedent for my case. No idea why account balances are not being paid after this very sincere post by Cloudbet.
Again, Cloudbet, your silence for the past weeks is deafening. I am awaiting mutual amicable communication on the matter to resolve this immediately. Thank you.Comment -
Lonnie is right. I probably should not be encouraging you and giving false hope.
You really have already blown any realistic chance.
But, if Cloudbet are claiming they do not penalize USA players if they co-operate to re-assure their customer base they are not free rolling Americans, you are not at all out of line letting people know that is not true in your case..Comment -
de-escalating and awaiting word from cloudbet about my case, which I feel is a strong one.Last edited by DoubleRedDragon; 10-21-20, 01:45 PM.Comment -
edit: de-escalating and awaiting word from cloudbetLast edited by DoubleRedDragon; 10-21-20, 01:45 PM.Comment
