Wrong Bet result in F1 - "Safety Car was in the F1 Grand Prix of Italy? NO "

**Stumpage** · 09-14-09, 09:16 AM

I'm pretty sure the safety car came out on the last lap, or near the last lap at least, when Hamilton hit the wall, but no idea how that impacts the wager as I've never placed a bet on the F1 circuit. Must be some sub-clause or something at one of the books, as I can't see how there could be different results for the same scenario.

**KrauseOasis** · 09-14-09, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by Stumpage

I'm pretty sure the safety car came out on the last lap, or near the last lap at least, when Hamilton hit the wall, but no idea how that impacts the wager as I've never placed a bet on the F1 circuit. Must be some sub-clause or something at one of the books, as I can't see how there could be different results for the same scenario.

you said the right word:

"I can not see how there could be different results for the same scenario."

and happened

**AimingHigh** · 09-14-09, 10:43 AM

F1 is notorious for rule differences across bookies. I hadn't heard of different books having different rules re. safety cars before, but the difference in rules re. the race winner is well known. Some pay out on the podium result, while others wait for the official FIA result (usually, several hours later; importantly, appeals, etc. may mean that this result deviates from the podium result).

It sounds like Bet24's bet is really "Will a safety car impact the race?" and the other 2 "Will a safety car be on the track at any time for any reason, regardless of whether/not it impedes the drivers' ability to overtake, etc.?"

Is Bet24's rule published on their website? Or did CS simply tell you this after you bet was graded a loss? If it's on their website, then, unfortunately, I think you're out of luck. If it's not published, but you were simply told it by CS, then I would file a dispute with SBR to see if they can help you. The complaint form is here: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

**KrauseOasis** · 09-14-09, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by AimingHigh

F1 is notorious for rule differences across bookies. I hadn't heard of different books having different rules re. safety cars before, but the difference in rules re. the race winner is well known. Some pay out on the podium result, while others wait for the official FIA result (usually, several hours later; importantly, appeals, etc. may mean that this result deviates from the podium result).

It sounds like Bet24's bet is really "Will a safety car impact the race?" and the other 2 "Will a safety car be on the track at any time for any reason, regardless of whether/not it impedes the drivers' ability to overtake, etc.?"

Is Bet24's rule published on their website? Or did CS simply tell you this after you bet was graded a loss? If it's on their website, then, unfortunately, I think you're out of luck. If it's not published, but you were simply told it by CS, then I would file a dispute with SBR to see if they can help you. The complaint form is here: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

the only book which aimed to put the rules "which is safety car during the race" was the Bet365 ..

Sportingbet and Bet24 and say nothing in the rules. and If it says nothing in the rules what is correct?

**AimingHigh** · 09-14-09, 11:44 AM

I think I'm confused. My previous message was based on misunderstanding your first message. Please ignore it.

From your first message, it looked like you got THIS rule from Bet24: The rules are the same boxes. . see: "A Safety Car Period is defined as the need for the Safety Car to run in front of the leading car during a specified race. Should the race start under the Safety Car, then all bets concerning the Safety Car market will be settled as Yes."

But NOW it looks like you it from Bet365, correct? If so, it's not determinative here. I'm sorry I was confused by it. I thought you were explaining what Bet24 had told you.

To be clear:
(1) A safety car DID come onto the track, but DID NOT go in front of the lead driver, because it came on only on the last lap?
(2) With Bet24 you bet NO safety car.
(3) With Sportingbet and Bet365, you also bet NO safety car. Sportingbet and Bet365 said NO safety car.
(4) Bet24 said YES, so your NO bet lost?
(5) Bet24 have said NOTHING to you, just graded the bet as a loss.

Have you actually ASKED them to clarify their rule? Could this simply be a mis-graded bet that they can correct and grade as won?

Contact Bet24 first saying that you believe the bet was mis-graded, and tell us what they say. Do this before a complaint in case this is just a simple mis-grading.

If you have contacted Bet24, what have they said? If they maintain it's correctly graded a loss, then it's suggests they have a different rule to Sportingbet and Bet365. If there is a rule difference it's the OTHER WAY AROUND to what I said in the last message, ie. it's actually Bet24 "at any time"; Sportingbet, Bet365 "in front of the lead car".

**KrauseOasis** · 09-14-09, 12:28 PM

Aiming... Everything you said is correct. I sent an email to ask for explanations and bet24 responded only with a photo, no explanation!!

Turns out I was in the rules of Bet24 and does not talk down what is a safety car during the race. If there is the rule, and I dispute that wins my bet .. and was won at Bet365 and Sportingbet that "There was no safety car during the race" ..

**AimingHigh** · 09-14-09, 12:31 PM

What was the photo of? (I suspect, the safety car on the track?) Did they literally say nothing in the e-mail reply, or did they at least say that it was correctly graded?

**KrauseOasis** · 09-14-09, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by AimingHigh

What was the photo of? (I suspect, the safety car on the track?) Did they literally say nothing in the e-mail reply, or did they at least say that it was correctly graded?

photo this:

Federation Internationale de l'Automobile

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/sport/championships/f1/Italy/Pages/Circuit.aspx

The FIA is the governing body of motor sport and promotes safe, sustainable and accessible mobility for all road users across the world. It works across three areas: Sport, Mobility and Campaigns.

in fact, there was the safety car .. But it came after the rubinho pass the finish line

In this case, Rubens Barrichelo had already finished the race when the possible SC went on the track ..

Then the SC would be in front of that car?

does not exist. SC entered the track after the finish!

Soo.. my bet at Bet365 and Sportingbet was given as gains in the "NO Safey Car in the race"

"I can not see how there could be different results for the same scenario."

do not have it in Bet24 rule about it.

**AimingHigh** · 09-14-09, 01:52 PM

As it's not a misgrading, but they seem to suggest their bet is correctly graded, I would file the SBR complaint using the link I gave earlier.

Rule differences are possible, unfortunately. I don't bet enough on F1 to know if any other sportsbooks have the same rule as Bet24. If they are the only book with that rule, perhaps SBR can convince them to pay out this time, or at least void the bet, and clarify their rules for future bettors. If they are the only one, it seems reasonable for a bettor to expect their rule to be the same as all other sportsbooks when they are silent on the details. If there is a split between books which have the "at any time" rule (Bet24) and those which have the "in front of the lead car" rule, I think it will be harder for SBR to negotiate successfully on your behalf.

It would be interesting, of course, to know how many, if any, were paid out as winning on the YES bet, which I assume Bet24 also offered.

Finally, Bet24 is related to NordicBet in some way: Nordic Bet processes their Moneybookers payouts at least, and they mention Nordic Bet's LGA licences on the front page. You might want to look at Nordic Bet's website to see if they have it in their rules. Of course, even if Nordic Bet is the parent, Bet24 can have different rules, but it would be interesting to see if NordicBet mention this rule specifically at all.

Good luck with the complaint. Let us know how you get on.

You can, of course, complain to the Maltese LGA, but I think SBR would be a better first stop than the LGA.

**GoodOldTed** · 09-14-09, 04:29 PM

that's a messy one KO, easy for the books to interpret it both ways if there is no official ruling from the FIA - as happens with classification, fastest lap etc. Safety car was called, but never fronted the lead driver...

It's harsh but I don't think any of those bookies has done anything wrong - it's a situation that I doubt any book or punter would ever have considered before yesterday....