AVOID Bodog live betting!

[brandonsvsu]

Looks like somebody at bodog must have read my post - they're not offering ANY live betting today or tomorrow for any games broadcast on Fox or ABC, the two stations which suffer from the longest time delay.

I still wonder if this will cost them more money in the long run by not offering live betting on NFC games?

[wontootree]

Anyway, I did speak directly with Bodog.com's bookmaker Richard G. about this issue, and I'd like to share his response with you

It's great to know that Richard picks and chooses who he talks to about these issues. Unfortunately I was the one with the problem and they refused to talk to me. I still see this as a major problem. Anyway, they sent me an email yesterday explaining how they plan to deal with anything the think might be fraud. They will zero out the players account. Not only will they keep the money won on any bets in question, they will keep money you have won on other bets, on poker and your initial deposit. It was my understanding that all Bodog was legally doing was holding this money in an account for the player, but apparently they disagree and feel they have a right to it if they so choose. Note that the determination of fraud is totally at their discretion and based on my experiences, I assume that you do not get to speak to them in your defense.

"We are well aware of anyone trying to gain an unfair advantage using sources outside of television broadcasts in wagering on our recreational Bodog Live in-running product and as such, these measures are identified as past post opportunities."

Since players were still able to place bets for another 3 to 4 seconds after I placed mine and their bets were not cancelled like mine were, it seems obvious that the system Bodog uses to identify past posters is identifying anyone who did very well on the game. They call one players bets "late" but continue to accept other players' bets afterwards. Because of this, they can't be using the time of the bet as the basis for determining if it is past-post, so the only other criteria has to be whether or not the player did well on the game.

[boston7781]

The way I see it if it is possible to cheat then they should not have it. If they are doing "Live Betting" then they should have someone there "live" at the game. If what im hearing is that they watch tv or listen to the radio and post the lines that is damn silly.

[brandonsvsu]

Anyway, they sent me an email yesterday explaining how they plan to deal with anything the think might be fraud. They will zero out the players account.

So you say though that they refunded you the $525 you lost on losing bets?

While I'm glad to see you got your money back, I find this HIGHLY disturbing when looking at the bigger picture. I see this as an admission by bodog that they only cancel winning past-post bets but keep all losing past-post bets.

And then they have the nerve to talk about fraud. IMO, the way they're selectively canceling ONLY winning bets constitutes fraud. I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they've profited by selectively canceling winning bets while keeping losing bets?

The entire bodog live betting system is both a joke and a shady operation. I'm glad I got my money the hell out of there and de-activated my account.

btw - do you still have the email they sent you? Mind posting it here?

[wontootree]

So you say though that they refunded you the $525 you lost on losing bets?

While I'm glad to see you got your money back, I find this HIGHLY disturbing when looking at the bigger picture. I see this as an admission by bodog that they only cancel winning past-post bets but keep all losing past-post bets.

And then they have the nerve to talk about fraud. IMO, the way they're selectively canceling ONLY winning bets constitutes fraud. I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of dollars they've profited by selectively canceling winning bets while keeping losing bets?

The entire bodog live betting system is both a joke and a shady operation. I'm glad I got my money the hell out of there and de-activated my account.

btw - do you still have the email they sent you? Mind posting it here?

Yes they returned my $525 and I am grateful for that. Their email is quoted below. I responded to their email and asked if I am correct in quoting them that if they consider something to be fraud they will keep all your money. They replied and restated that if they deem it to be fraud they will keep your money. It appears this decision is made by their "Intergrated" Fraud Department. They really should consider giving their departments simpler names that their employees can spell.

Dear Mr. xxxxxx,

Thank you for contacting the Bodog Sports Department.

We assure you we did not make this decision in haste or with out serious deliberation. We would still be happy to accept your wagers, however, your Bodog Live Limit will be reduced to $1.00 in accordance with Bodog Live Rule 1 - Rules Common to All Sports, which states "The minimum wager is $1.

Please note, we have an Intergrated Fraud Department, as they keep track of all activity towards suspicious bettors. We ask that you do not attempt any fraud, as any account would be zeroed out and closed.

If there is anything else we can assist you with, please do not hesitate to contact a member of the Sports Team directly at our toll free number, 1-866-591-0083.

Best Regards,
Bodog Sports Team

[brandonsvsu]

Dear Mr. xxxxxx,

Thank you for contacting the Bodog Sports Department.

We assure you we did not make this decision in haste or with out serious deliberation. We would still be happy to accept your wagers, however, your Bodog Live Limit will be reduced to $1.00 in accordance with Bodog Live Rule 1 - Rules Common to All Sports, which states "The minimum wager is $1.

Please note, we have an Intergrated Fraud Department, as they keep track of all activity towards suspicious bettors. We ask that you do not attempt any fraud, as any account would be zeroed out and closed.

If there is anything else we can assist you with, please do not hesitate to contact a member of the Sports Team directly at our toll free number, 1-866-591-0083.

Best Regards,
Bodog Sports Team

That looks like a standard copy and paste job on their part, that first paragraph about haste and serious deliberation was word for word (as best I can recall) what I was told about a year ago. The mere fact that they have a copy-and-paste for that paragraph tells me they send it out quite frequently.

One other thing they also told me when I complained about it - they said for me to continue to bet live with my $1 limit, establish a "history," and then request 6 months later a bet limit increase. Needless to say I have no plans of doing that anytime soon.

Also, found this in Bodog's official rules:

All bets that are placed after the play has started will be settled "Rejected" and all money will be refunded.

That is a VERY shaky and questionable rule. What exactly do they define as "after the play has started"? Does that mean in actual-time? radio-time? tv-time? When does that exact moment occur?

And I stress the word "all" because bodog would essentially violating its own rules if it doesn't cancel EVERY SINGLE BET placed past-post. Winning bets, losing bets, the whole works. And this should apply to radio bettors, tv bettors, EVERYONE. The fact that bodog can selectively interpret this rule for each individual player is a load of BS.

[Niwrad]

That does sound like they are not cancelling losing past-post bets which in my opinion is fraud. I use Bodog sparingly and haven't used the live betting in awhile, but I wouldn't trust a company that does that. Will probably cash out after the weekend if their site ever comes back online.

[bleedblue]

In my experience it varied. There were times when a line would be settled across the board as "no action" (in these cases you could see in the text message section where it would say line xxxxx as settled as "no action" due to past-post betting) and on my betting window, it would show status as "no action" and the amount of the bet in blue, returned to me. This was usually when they were REALLY LATE taking the line down. I think in these cases everybody's bets were canceled.

Bump, for possible freeroll shenanigans...

After Dallas jumped offsides on the PAT (in the 3rd quarter I believe), NYG kicked off from the 35 instead of the 30. When I realized to the penalty was to be enforced on the kickoff I went and bet on u26.5 yd line, which was stupid cuz I really opened myself up for a freeroll. The line ended up moving against me, so people were clearly betting the other side.

Anyway Dallas returned to the 18, and as I feared a few seconds later my bet was no actioned. But it wasn't settled as no action across the board, so it really leaves me curious what happened with the losing bets.

I've been treading very carefully ever since this thread was started, making sure to get my bets in well before the snap, but I still managed to get myself in a gray area. I might continue betting very carefully as there is still money to be won, but this book is getting shadier and shadier in my eyes...

[blix177]

I suggest that someone make a stickout of how to beat bodog live a sticky. That way we can stick it to them.

[rsigley]

Bump, for possible freeroll shenanigans...

After Dallas jumped offsides on the PAT (in the 3rd quarter I believe), NYG kicked off from the 35 instead of the 30. When I realized to the penalty was to be enforced on the kickoff I went and bet on u26.5 yd line, which was stupid cuz I really opened myself up for a freeroll. The line ended up moving against me, so people were clearly betting the other side.

Anyway Dallas returned to the 18, and as I feared a few seconds later my bet was no actioned. But it wasn't settled as no action across the board, so it really leaves me curious what happened with the losing bets.

I've been treading very carefully ever since this thread was started, making sure to get my bets in well before the snap, but I still managed to get myself in a gray area. I might continue betting very carefully as there is still money to be won, but this book is getting shadier and shadier in my eyes...

I had a problem with the same bet and emailed them. I bet it at -115 then it moved to -110 so I bet it again. They claim it was a line error even though the penalty was known about before the commercial break and even with the penalty they wouldn't of gotten to the 26.5.

My email

"I placed two live bets on the NY Giants/Dallas Cowboys game that were graded No Action but no reason was given for why.

The two bets are 1496xxxxx and 1496xxxxx Under 26.5 Dallas will start their drive. The first bet was at -115, then the line moved to -110 and I bet it again. I believe it took place in the beginning of the 4th quarter with 13:24 left. Dallas started their drive at the 17.

Was it graded no-action because of the penalty on the extra point attempt? If so I don't think that is really fair since that was known that the penalty would be enforced on the kick off before the game went to a commercial break. The lines stayed up throughout the entire commercial break after the penalty was known so why should the penalty cause it to be graded as no action? I understand where if the penalty happened on the kickoff it would be graded no action, but not a penalty that was known way before the kickoff even happened."

Their first email

"

Please note, these wagers were settled as No Action due to the penalty assessed on the kickoff. As the penalty cause the kickoff to be placed five yards back, all wagers on this line were settled as No Action. "

I replied

"Why was a line even offered then if the penalty was known about 5 minutes before the kickoff happened? It wasn't like the penalty was a surprise since it happened on the play before and then there was a long commercial break
"

Then they replied

" Please note, as this was a Line Error all wagers on this line were settled as No Action. You may rest assured all wagers are settled in accordance with the Play by Play at NFL.com although, because of this error we are forced to No Action these wagers.



We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. You will find the funds from this wager have been returned to your account. "

Don't understand the funds from this wager have been returned since they were returned at the time being No Actioned.

Oh well, only $200 but still sucks.

[brandonsvsu]

What was the average line they were offering on prior kickoffs? Was it in the neighborhood of o/u 26? Or closer to 31?

They could easily claim line error if the previous kickoff lines were around 26. If it was 31 though, then it sounds like they settled a bunch of bets no action because probably 90 percent of people won.

In my experience, the most profitable lines in a live game are kickoffs near the end of the half - they usually don't compensate enough for a squib kick, meaning you want to bet the over.

Another profitable bet I found was the draw play on 2nd and long (bet run on 2nd and long)

And if you really want to make a profit betting the play-by-play during a drive, RESEARCH THE TEAMS THAT ARE PLAYING! Go back to the previous couple of weeks, find the box score for the game and look at the play-by-play results, look at their offense. And I'm not talking look at situation, like a team passes 90 percent of the time on 3rd and 2 - bodog's odds I think account for this. What the odds do NOT account for is patterns. For instance, look to see what the most number of consecutive times in a row a team will run the ball before passing it.

Lets say Team A in the first 2 weeks of the season never made more than 5 consecutive pass attempts before running it. Now fast forward to live betting - the strategy would wait until 3 consecutive pass attempts, then bet run at a small wager. If you're wrong and they pass again, then bet run again, but increase your wager. Do that again until you win. Unlike blackjack or roulette, football plays are not mutually exclusive to the previous plays, meaning that the higher number of consecutive times a team does one type of play, the odds increase with each play thereafter that they will do something different.

[bleedblue]

I had a problem with the same bet and emailed them. I bet it at -115 then it moved to -110 so I bet it again. They claim it was a line error even though the penalty was known about before the commercial break and even with the penalty they wouldn't of gotten to the 26.5.

I don't really disagree with their decision to no action the bets, but the fact that the line was left up until the kickoff, and there was no message explaining that the bets were cancelled across the board (and why they were cancelled) leaves me suspicious.

BTW, are you allowed to bet more than one time on the same bet? The only time I did this, my 2nd bet was cancelled. There are many times I wanted to when I bet at like -250 and a few seconds later the other side is like +600, or to get more $$ on a one side of a soft line...

What was the average line they were offering on prior kickoffs? Was it in the neighborhood of o/u 26? Or closer to 31?

They could easily claim line error if the previous kickoff lines were around 26. If it was 31 though, then it sounds like they settled a bunch of bets no action because probably 90 percent of people won.

I'm pretty sure they were all in the 26-28 range...

[brandonsvsu]

You can bet more than one time on the same bet so long as your total bet on one line doesn't exceed your bet limit. Once the odds change though, I think that constitutes a new line and therefore you should be able to bet another $100. I used to do this quite often as an "insurance" bet if the opposite side's odds increased significantly, I never had any of those bets canceled.

[rsigley]

yea the max is $100 but if it moves you usually can bet it again

i've been denied sometimes but it usually goes through if i click it a bunch

[bleedblue]

Did anyone bet FG good right before the half? Curious if those got no actioned cuz I saw they had the ball spotted at the 35 instead of the 30, so I stayed away from it.

Also thanks for the info on the limits...

[poker_dummy101]

Wow, someone from SBR should REALLY and FULLY investigate this matter. Who knows how many people are getting screwed because Bodog is Freerolling their live betting. Unreal

[DiggityDaggityDo]

Brandon,

You're trying to complicate the argument by bringing up irrelevant details. If you were knowingly making bets after the plays started, you were cheating.

How was he making bets after the play started? Is his radio broadcasting from 7 seconds in the future? No.

Bodog needs to up their techonogly. C'mon folks, the radio has been around for about 100 years. Bodog should be up to speed and have a radio or two in their offices.

I'm thinking that if a player is smart enough to listen to the radio to get an advantage, then the book should be smarter than the player and get an advantage over the player. Maybe the books should have 2 or 3 radios themselves in their office, or maybe the books should have employees at every game that they are offering live betting on, or maybe the books should not offer live betting if they feel that a radio is to their disadvantage. C'mon, it's a fukking radio.

With that said, I think for now on I will be watching the games on tv with the volume muted and a radio on the side. Not for the few seconds advantage, but just to get much more detailed information on the game. I never thought about that. Thanks for the info, OP. I hope you get paid.

Oh, and for the record, I have only made in thru the first page of this thread so far, so if of this has already been covered, then so be it.

[DiggityDaggityDo]

Let the games begin! I have dug out the old college radio and I am ready to make some money!

[bleedblue]

Any one have the problem of going to make a bet, and right before you click, the line changes? I was making at -140 something and I ended up getting -182. Thats a good way to turn a decent bet into a bad one.

[Tripleseis]

Bodog is an awful book, bad lines, bad service

[Sandro777]

Ive done bodog betting over the past couple years. I think it makes games in which I have no interest more exciting. But I too have seen some of the line shadyness and will probably stay away from it for a while.

Their whole strategy on cancelling bets that Win for technical reasons but allowing them othertimes if they are losses is dubious at best.

[vitalyo]

How was he making bets after the play started? Is his radio broadcasting from 7 seconds in the future? No.

I have no account with Bodog . I had read the whole trend .And it seems to me that this guys at Bodog are making money at will ,any time they want , by simply deciding at which bets to honor and which are no action . And excuse is just perfect . They present it like they are the victim . And God Dam this dishonest players trying to screw us .
If they are making money "All bets are stand" . If not "No action".

This is very disturbing !
My guess only 1% maybe 2% gamblers are aver of this dishonest practice by Bodog and will stay away from live betting . The rest of the players 99% - 98% will fall in to their trap "OF NO WIN" .

From reading this topic . It looks like the % of "void" WINNING bets are unusually HIGH VS LOSING bets.
As i said before only 1% maybe 2% gamblers are aver of this dishonest practice.
Most of the forums will not allow you to post links .But you can CUT and Paste this story in your forum . Or take scrolling screen shots and post this pages in your forum or blog .

I'll do it my self tomorrow . One post will be on the largest UK gambling forum the other 2 on US major forum sites.
SBR can't solve every problem .They are not magicians . You have to play your part too .


How ignorant of Richard G. to call the players dishonest . If he is honest then he should say we are f***ed up our live betting .Instead he accusing players .


“We appreciate the feedback we received and have resolved any outstanding past post issues regarding forum poster wontootree. We are well aware of anyone trying to gain an unfair advantage using sources outside of television broadcasts in wagering on our recreational Bodog Live in-running product and as such, these measures are identified as past post opportunities. If anyone else has encountered similar past post situations with our in-running product, we’d be happy to review your account and encourage you to contact us at sports@bodog.com or 1-866-591-0083.

Sincerely,

Richard G.”

Thank you!

BodogBecky

[MrX]

I have no account with Bodog . I had read the whole trend .And it seems to me that this guys at Bodog are making money at will ,any time they want , by simply deciding at which bets to honor and which are no action . And excuse is just perfect . They present it like they are the victim . And God Dam this dishonest players trying to screw us .
If they are making money "All bets are stand" . If not "No action".

This is very disturbing !
My guess only 1% maybe 2% gamblers are aver of this dishonest practice by Bodog and will stay away from live betting . The rest of the players 99% - 98% will fall in to their trap "OF NO WIN" .

The original poster made a similar claim that Bodog would cancel the bets of any player who managed to win at live betting in his original post. However, by the second page, he says he's upset about having his limits cut because he was used to $200 to $300 free money from each live game. Somehow, I think that this would be hard to achieve when all of your winning bets are canceled.

[wontootree]

Actually what I said was that their ONLY criteria for determining if someone cheated is if that person did amazingly well in one game. They will go back and cancel the majority of your bets from that game. The only bet I ever had cancelled after the fact, prior to the game in question, was one where they accidentally left the odds up after the play had happened on TV.

Imagine someone betting every game on the board every Sunday (not live betting). Most weeks they just lose because of the vigs after picking basically half winners and half losers. Some weeks they get killed, but there's usually that one week per year or two where they hit almost every game... which is what keeps them coming back. Well, imagine that whenever they have their one big week, the bookie cancels all their bets because of the high improbability that anyone would go 13-1 without cheating. This is what Bodog is doing with live betting. If you pick a few more winners than losers every game, there is no problem and they will not cancel any of your bets after the game has ended. But when you have your one big day, which statistically you WILL have if you bet over 100 of these games like I did, they won't pay you. I hope this clears up what I was trying to say.

[Arilou]

Bodog is trying to offer a suckers' bet for suckers to bet on, either for fun or because they're deluded enough to think they can win; when (back in the day that my action was welcome there) I gave them comments during their beta test that they might want to offer lines worth betting on their reply was basically "This product isn't for you." I appreciated their honesty.

The problem here is that if they let players bet while watching on TV, they open themselves up to the radio. If they close the line when the radio has the information (or worse, a player at the game with a wireless connection) then they close off a ton of action. Therefore, they are basically offering the product under a compact that you won't try to use alternate sources to outrace the TV and they agree to take your money. If you don't like it, my dear, don't play. There's REAL live betting at a variety of books out there: Pinnacle, CRIS, Olympic, Bet Phoenix, 5 Dimes, Betfair, Intertops, Sportsbook.com all offer such a chance on football and there are sure to be others I'm not aware of or not recalling right now.

[moonbeam]

bodogs live betting is great. It is like this 200% reload bonus from betdos.

[wacked]

As is anything in life, if you find an advantage, exploit it, but do some cautiously and don't make yourself stand out.

As far as listening to the radio and betting, I think that's perfectly fine. Depending on how you watch the game, your delay could be much worse than BoDog's feed. It's not as if you know which feed they have and everyone is synced up.

[rsigley]

somehow i got banned from bodog live betting even though my friends and i are down like ~$3000 since the first week of CFB this year. we had one winning day (last week jets game) but every other time we lose a lot

we just bet on the games when they're over my house for fun, we usually lose a lot but have a good time so its okay.

today we were down like $100-$200 then i notice my balance keep dropping without us betting. apparently they thought all our bets were past post and canceled all the winners except for 1 or 2 but kept all the losers then they cut my limit to $1.

we're watching on fox, i don't even own a radio and we're huge losers at this but we still got banned, our winners canceled, and limits cut ha

[bleedblue]

This is ridiculous. I am done with them...

[moonbeam]

This is ridiculous. I am done with them...

good choice. It´s really a horrible book

[acw]

While the complaints were at full force here you go:

9/28/2009 12:47 PM
bodog upgraded from B+ to A-

[wontootree]

somehow i got banned from bodog live betting even though my friends and i are down like ~$3000 since the first week of CFB this year. we had one winning day (last week jets game) but every other time we lose a lot

we just bet on the games when they're over my house for fun, we usually lose a lot but have a good time so its okay.

today we were down like $100-$200 then i notice my balance keep dropping without us betting. apparently they thought all our bets were past post and canceled all the winners except for 1 or 2 but kept all the losers then they cut my limit to $1.

we're watching on fox, i don't even own a radio and we're huge losers at this but we still got banned, our winners canceled, and limits cut ha

This is exactly what I was trying to explain to everyone. One good game and Bodog claims foul and you don't get a chance to defend yourself. Cancelling winning bets is completely at their disgression. You can go 0-15 during one game and of course no flags are raised, but if you go 13-2 during the very next game, they claim you are betting past post.

I hope you do what I did rsigley and fill out a complaint form at this forum. Tell them how many losing bets weren't cancelled when they cancelled your winning bets along with the total amount you lost on these bets. I did this and Bodog reimbursed me for $525. It's worth a shot.

[MrX]

This is exactly what I was trying to explain to everyone. One good game and Bodog claims foul and you don't get a chance to defend yourself.

You're killing me, man. Did you not claim that you consistently won $200-$300 per game live-betting at Bodog before your radio indecent?

[wontootree]

You're killing me, man. Did you not claim that you consistently won $200-$300 per game live-betting at Bodog before your radio indecent?

Yes. Betting at $50 to $100 a kick, you only have to go something like 15-11 to do this. This is not an unbelievable winning percentage and they only cancelled one of my hundreds of bets before the radio game. I was up a couple thousand during the radio game. I don't know what supposed lie you keep trying to trap me in. I keep telling you the exact same story pal.

[MrX]

You repeatedly imply that Bodog is freerolling its clients by habitually canceling winners and keeping losers. If that were the case, it would have been impossible for you to consistently win over hundreds of bets. What's most likely happening is that Bodog takes notice when a player hit's at an unlikely percentage. When that happens, they look at the timing/type of bet and with that info it won't be hard to tell who's using a radio feed.

Rsigley's story, if accurate, is troubling, though. After this thread they may be facing a lot more radio betting, and they may be getting more aggressive with countermeasures.