Wagerr - blockchain based P2P betting platform

[bigtymer56]

If you guys have questions...I would suggest you join the telegram https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAEMkNcLC11lv9e7_pg. It's pretty active in there.

From reading through it, it appears things are running smoothly so far. Don't see any complaints about missing payouts or anything like that.

Downloaded the android app. (Paranoid - so I installed it on an old phone factory reset phone) Looks good and synced up fine. Gonna see if I can get some of the coin and test it out for tomorrow with the Jet game.

[danshan11]

1.8648

can you explain your math optional please

[shinealightonem]

1.86= -116

http://oddsconverter.co.uk/

[Optional]

can you explain your math optional please

Take decimal odds -1 then multiply it by .94 (to take out 6%)

1.92 -1 = .92

.92 * .94 = .8648

Them add the 1 back on = 1.86(48)

[danshan11]

I know I am dumb just trying to understand
if wagerr has 1.92 on their site and pinnacle has 1.92 on their site
I bet 100 to win 92 dollars with pinnacle but with
wagerr
I bet 100 to win 86 dollars is that correct?

[Optional]

I know I am dumb just trying to understand
if wagerr has 1.92 on their site and pinnacle has 1.92 on their site
I bet 100 to win 92 dollars with pinnacle but with
wagerr
I bet 100 to win 86 dollars is that correct?

Correct.

well you'd get $86.48 but you have the idea right.

[danshan11]

Correct.

well you'd get $86.48 but you have the idea right.

doesnt sound so good to me, does it to you?

[Optional]

doesnt sound so good to me, does it to you?

6% is higher than Betfair in most places. And they own/rent buildings and employ thousands. Which is what kind of offended me. A P2P decentralized exchange that thinks its fine to skim more than Betfair.

It's probably usable at that level though, if liquidity is there I guess. But it won't produce best odds in the market as they claim too often.

[bookie]

But it won't produce best odds in the market as they claim too often.

That's what sours me on the whole project. Whoever is behind it doesn't seem to have a basic grasp of the real life economics of sports booking and betting, and lacking that, they're going to get intensely frustrated with their liquidity which will lead to other kinds of operational errors.

If they want to have a chance, they've at least got to be able to beat the Matchbook commission structure.

[danshan11]

the thing is I believe they made a cool alt coin that might have some use in some way but nothing to do with sportsbooks

[lotuspod]

I know I am dumb just trying to understand
if wagerr has 1.92 on their site and pinnacle has 1.92 on their site
I bet 100 to win 92 dollars with pinnacle but with
wagerr
I bet 100 to win 86 dollars is that correct?

No, it's not Pinnacle @ 1.92 vs. WGR @ 1.8648 - check your numbers again lol.

6% is higher than Betfair in most places. And they own/rent buildings and employ thousands. Which is what kind of offended me. A P2P decentralized exchange that thinks its fine to skim more than Betfair.

It's probably usable at that level though, if liquidity is there I guess. But it won't produce best odds in the market as they claim too often.

The p2p exchange will be a 2% fee, not sure how many more times I have to say this. The 6% for on-chain is more comparable to traditional sportsbooks(ease of use, plus not needing another user to take the other end), mainly due to there being extra risk to the chain because of uneven minting/burning and because we're still in the earliest stages gathering initial info on it.

[lotuspod]

the thing is I believe they made a cool alt coin that might have some use in some way but nothing to do with sportsbooks

You said it yourself in your Fairlay thread, if everyone was only motivated by the absolute lowest fees/best line then that place would be booming. We've offered two different formats to help cater to different crowds, who value different things. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

[shinealightonem]

whats up lotus...weve seen wager from the beginning from the slack to the egglant emojis to now lol...

[danshan11]

No, it's not Pinnacle @ 1.92 vs. WGR @ 1.8648 - check your numbers again lol.



The p2p exchange will be a 2% fee, not sure how many more times I have to say this. The 6% for on-chain is more comparable to traditional sportsbooks(ease of use, plus not needing another user to take the other end), mainly due to there being extra risk to the chain because of uneven minting/burning and because we're still in the earliest stages gathering initial info on it.

so show me the math on that bet scenarion comparing you to pinnacle on the same wager please

[danshan11]

You said it yourself in your Fairlay thread, if everyone was only motivated by the absolute lowest fees/best line then that place would be booming. We've offered two different formats to help cater to different crowds, who value different things. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

so again what is the benefit of wagerr if its not the price, do I get a free keychain if I bet with you instead of a regular or btc book? Please dont tell me a bunch of node crap, I am talking about benefits to bettors. Please dont talk about security of funds and imply that pinnacle and bookmaker are going to steal our money, please!

[qsgsg]

i agree with danshan, a layman explanation with example would be great. i dont get the "on-chain" part.

[Optional]

i agree with danshan, a layman explanation with example would be great. i dont get the "on-chain" part.

How do you come up with a simple explanation for a complicated investment scheme designed to exploit sports bettors?

Got to love the lines about "but we burn fees" as some excuse a bettor should care about.


6% is a pure rippoff whatever the hell this onchain betting all the crypto nerds are excited about is.

2% exchange fee is also a rippoff. Double Matchbook and maybe 10 to 20 times higher than a bettor should expect from a truly DE-centralized P2P betting platform.


But truly the worst thing to come from Wagerr will be the constant flow of know nothing investors we will have to deal with self promoting this garbage to help their ICO investment.


The more I see about this the more I am growing to hate it.

I wish we had a way to develop a real betting platform like this.


These guys could have made a fortune and taken over the world based on volume... if they had actually taken notice of the exact questions they were asked a year ago when this thread started. IE: were interested in building the best betting platform they could. But they went for a priority as an investment scheme/scam instead

[danshan11]

its impossible to do much margins are so razor thin. Wagerr is a simple pump and dump. They dont want to go to prison so they will buy some print advertising and hire a few programmers and keep a telegram open and actually make this garbage thing that will be dead completely within 6 months. They did one thing that others could not do they got a bunch of guys betting that never ever would and wont as soon as their wagerr coins are worth about the same as Nike stock once Kap signs and dont kneel anymore, LOL

[danshan11]

Yes. Think they are looking for ideas to get money to fund a project and make money off of that now with bitcoin red hot. I doubt if gets past Go. The whole concept is very strange and if you look further at the fees would not be particularly attractive.

For example, if you cannot match up with a bettor, they will take your action but for a 6% cashout fee. Once you factor in -106 lines and all the fees, it is not going to be that attractive to then take a chance on a new currency on top of it which is based on some bizarre formula of betting action.

he said it and it still is true!

[lotuspod]

I wish we had a way to develop a real betting platform like this.

These guys could have made a fortune and taken over the world based on volume... if they had actually taken notice of the exact questions they were asked a year ago when this thread started. IE: were interested in building the best betting platform they could. But they went for a priority as an investment scheme/scam instead

Actually a group of bettors did try this, they proposed a split with the community and promised lower fees by cutting most the incentives for those being the house.

It failed to make it through even the earliest phase.

Without the proper incentives/economics, a betting platform like this simply will not get off of the ground...it's a bit naive to think otherwise. Trust me, you're preaching to the choir here with the sub-1% fees...I would like them just as much as you. But it's simply not possible this early, and certainly not without a serious debate plus solid support.

Also can't forget that many of the centralized sites either restrict winners, or impose higher fees on the larger winners.

Lastly there is the issue of crackdowns on betting in quite a few Asian countries particularly. We saw with the last major crackdown that even crypto-based sports betting isn't safe from these, if they are centralized. The amounts reported were simply staggering.

[lotuspod]

https://news.bitcoin.com/longhash-launches-bitcoin-tracker-to-find-dirty-money/

This just got posted a few minutes ago, are you seriously going to sit there and say privacy/anonymization features aren't important?


The funny/best part was their reasoning for creating the bitcoin tracker - attracting institutional money.

[danshan11]

still no breakdown of the bet and still no reasoning of why wagerr is good for the average bettor? just more smoke and mirrors

[bigtymer56]

How do you come up with a simple explanation for a complicated investment scheme designed to exploit sports bettors?

Got to love the lines about "but we burn fees" as some excuse a bettor should care about.


6% is a pure rippoff whatever the hell this onchain betting all the crypto nerds are excited about is.

2% exchange fee is also a rippoff. Double Matchbook and maybe 10 to 20 times higher than a bettor should expect from a truly DE-centralized P2P betting platform.


But truly the worst thing to come from Wagerr will be the constant flow of know nothing investors we will have to deal with self promoting this garbage to help their ICO investment.


The more I see about this the more I am growing to hate it.

I wish we had a way to develop a real betting platform like this.


These guys could have made a fortune and taken over the world based on volume... if they had actually taken notice of the exact questions they were asked a year ago when this thread started. IE: were interested in building the best betting platform they could. But they went for a priority as an investment scheme/scam instead

Opti, you should be rooting for this. If it works, eventually another group of bettors/crypto nerds(and some know nothing investors ) will take the good parts and hopefully create a better system.

[Optional]

Opti, you should be rooting for this. If it works, eventually another group of bettors/crypto nerds(and some know nothing investors ) will take the good parts and hopefully create a better system.

I was. Well would still like to be wrong and see this a success, but just dont see it happening.

They are too slow and too clunky and too expensive.

Just to look at a list of 10 bet offerings in a plain interface took hours and hours of effort to download and sync stuff. A year plus into this and that's where they are?!


Peerplays.com appears to be way ahead now.

[qsgsg]

I was. Well would still like to be wrong and see this a success, but just dont see it happening.

They are too slow and too clunky and too expensive.

Just to look at a list of 10 bet offerings in a plain interface took hours and hours of effort to download and sync stuff. A year plus into this and that's where they are?!


Peerplays.com appears to be way ahead now.

that's great. looks very straight forward. 1% commision on net winnings per market and fixed fee for each bet placed.

[lotuspod]

I was. Well would still like to be wrong and see this a success, but just dont see it happening.

They are too slow and too clunky and too expensive.

Just to look at a list of 10 bet offerings in a plain interface took hours and hours of effort to download and sync stuff. A year plus into this and that's where they are?!


Peerplays.com appears to be way ahead now.

Actually that's possibly one of the few decent choices, they were smart enough to avoid building on top of ETH - which the vast majority of others have. However a quick glance at the btc value of their token over the past many months would strongly indicate that not everything is exactly going smoothly over there either. They've been working on it since at least 2016.

Another thing you're still failing to grasp though, stated initial fees and such mean very little for a truly decentralized network - since it implies that these things could be changed through consensus. Looking deeper into the fees/costs, it seems they're passing a number of costs/risks onto the node operators. If you and at least a few hundred - few thousand others feel like taking the risk of potentially running at a loss, go for it. Low fees mean very little unless they're sustainable in the long-term.


It's not hard to reason that there's an optimal fee range/structure, and the good projects will work to find it over time. Expecting projects to nail it the first try with a perfect future-proof fee structure is pretty unrealistic and seriously lacking patience. We've only just now released some of the core features, and this is the first of its kind...yet you're already demanding instant perfection.

[danshan11]

still no breakdown of the bet and still no reasoning of why wagerr is good for the average bettor? just more smoke and mirrors

still....

[lotuspod]

still....

Do your own research since you still have so many questions, I and others have told you go to the source and see for yourself...there are multiple social channels and plenty of documents to read through.

There is no valid reason why I should have to spend day after day answering simple questions from only you, when the answers are sitting right there. Especially not with that attitude.

There are far more people discussing this over there anyway, it makes absolutely no sense for everyone to have to come to you.

[danshan11]

LOL, exactly what I thought!

[danwinkler]

Meet Team Wagerr


David Mah

Founder

Jason Tauriello

Director of Operations

Robert Christensen

Lead Developer

Tony Kim

Business Advisor

John Choi

Full Stack Developer

Guillermo Manzanares

Advisor

Sean Fox

Advisor

[danwinkler]

I wouldn't trust any of my big money sitting there with that team. They all look shady.

[danshan11]

that last guy is the guy I caught in the dumpster behind my office lighting leaves on fire in his soiled underwear and half a wife beater tshirt

[Microbetter]

that last guy is the guy I caught in the dumpster behind my office lighting leaves on fire in his soiled underwear and half a wife beater tshirt

You were right when you said he would eventually hide behind the "you have a bad attitude" card.

[Optional]

Actually that's possibly one of the few decent choices, they were smart enough to avoid building on top of ETH - which the vast majority of others have. However a quick glance at the btc value of their token over the past many months would strongly indicate that not everything is exactly going smoothly over there either. They've been working on it since at least 2016.

Another thing you're still failing to grasp though, stated initial fees and such mean very little for a truly decentralized network - since it implies that these things could be changed through consensus. Looking deeper into the fees/costs, it seems they're passing a number of costs/risks onto the node operators. If you and at least a few hundred - few thousand others feel like taking the risk of potentially running at a loss, go for it. Low fees mean very little unless they're sustainable in the long-term.


It's not hard to reason that there's an optimal fee range/structure, and the good projects will work to find it over time. Expecting projects to nail it the first try with a perfect future-proof fee structure is pretty unrealistic and seriously lacking patience. We've only just now released some of the core features, and this is the first of its kind...yet you're already demanding instant perfection.

I think I have just come to the realization that the compromize required to satisfy investors and users of Wagerr is too much. (and probably the same for Peerplays)

6%/2% calculates out well for investor projections but as a bettor yourself you must know they sound very high. And with investors controlling the voting it's going to be tough to get them down I would think.

Also, the need to base it around your own coins to make these work is the major achilles heel I think.

Serious bettors are not wanting to have to gamble on multiple levels of exchange rates to use these.

Just being bitcoin based is a severe enough limitation. Adding an extra coin in the chain is a very tough sell to bettors.

Although I am sure opportunities will exist at first to get in early and see the base value of your WGR rise with the initial growth in betting use.

[danshan11]

You were right when you said he would eventually hide behind the "you have a bad attitude" card.

a little of that but more of I really do have a bad attitude, LOL.

he ducks and dodged me since day 1, everyone that reads this knows wagerr is not for bettors, it might be a cool alt coin or some techy crap some day but its not for bettors