Best countries to live in for sports betting

[lonnie55]

Ionnie, are you certain of this: "It's certainly not tax free when you do it as a profession"? Thanks

No, not anymore. I was assuming that it's taxable but apparently the whole issue is more complex than I initially thought.

I listened to a podcast a while ago: A German lawyer, an Austrian lawyer, both experts for gambling issues, and two poker players had a talk about whether or not earnings from poker are taxable. The Austrian lawyer wondered why all the German poker pros moved to Austria as Austria has almost the same gambling/tax laws like Germany and Germany taxes professional poker players. Obviously it's a hoax that Austria would not tax poker pros. It's just not prosecuted.

https://youtu.be/Xj_W3kKMEso

So poker is not sports betting but according to every German lawyer I asked so far, it depends on the single case if sports betting is considered tax-relevant or not. Maybe it's the same in Austria.

On the contrary, user eath1 said that he was told by an Austrian authority that sports betting is not taxable at all: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...l#post29195671

I could not verify this statement to date. Maybe it depends on the federal state you live in, I don't know.

[Joey Zaza]

Interesting. Thanks for the detailed reply.

Bit more about poker and tax here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u4NFZtOWBE

[adriatic_sea]

So there is still no good answer to this question?
I thought Malta is way to go, but after reading some other forum I'm not so sure anymore. Looks like winnings from sports betting should be taxed if you do it professionally but nobody pays. Pretty much confusing situation.

Austria is great country to live, but local/legal bookies are not so good, small limits, average odds.

UK means no pinny, but most agents/brokers are available. Anyone knows is it possible to withdraw money from agent directly to bank account without consequences?

Anyone knows anything about Isle of Man? Or some country with decent offline/street bookies?

[CIS]

Hi everyone!
Any new information regarding Malta? Its so strange there, by law, sports winnings are not taxed if you make money you have pay taxes(that what my friend from Malta said who is a pro tipster). Altough making money from tipping service is taxable in any other country so yeah...
Im currently betting in a country(estonia) where its no taxes if you use locally licenced bookies but you have to pay 20% tax from your winnings if you bet on offshore/asian bookies. Im also looking for a place to relocate and so far thinking about Bulgaria and Malta(this one is better option because of English language).
Also i assume Cambodia, Vietnam or Philipphines not the best place to do betting business

[SBE]

I am also thinking of moving either to Malta or Cyprus.

Cannot find any relevant information.

As for the Malta tax system, could anybody (who is speaking perfect English - it is not me, I am happy to be able to

write few columns here...) ring them up, please ? That single winnings are not taxed at all, but the whole amount

(pluses and minuses) might be taxed even by a 35 % income tax (if the amount is , I have read it somewhere,

maybe more than 16 000 EUR per a year - or so, what is nothing for a professional gambler, to reach such sum).

This is an advice I found on another forum:

"
Telephone the tax authority for a definitive answer.

https://ird.gov.mt/feedback.aspx "


Thanks.

[CIS]

I am also thinking of moving either to Malta or Cyprus.

Cannot find any relevant information.

As for the Malta tax system, could anybody (who is speaking perfect English - it is not me, I am happy to be able to

write few columns here...) ring them up, please ? That single winnings are not taxed at all, but the whole amount

(pluses and minuses) might be taxed even by a 35 % income tax (if the amount is , I have read it somewhere,

maybe more than 16 000 EUR per a year - or so, what is nothing for a professional gambler, to reach such sum).

This is an advice I found on another forum:

"
Telephone the tax authority for a definitive answer.

https://ird.gov.mt/feedback.aspx "


Thanks.

I wrote them an email regarding the (same) question. Lets see what they answer. Any information about Cyprus? Regarding with Malta, my friend said that he declares income and pays taxes simply because Maltaese tax authorities do not believe that someone could be making a living by betting and therefore to avoid any kind of investigations about the origin of the funds, he declares an yearly income and pays taxes from that. Malta has step by step tax system which means the more you earn the more you pay.

[SBE]

I wrote them an email regarding the (same) question. Lets see what they answer. Any information about Cyprus? Regarding with Malta, my friend said that he declares income and pays taxes simply because Maltaese tax authorities do not believe that someone could be making a living by betting and therefore to avoid any kind of investigations about the origin of the funds, he declares an yearly income and pays taxes from that. Malta has step by step tax system which means the more you earn the more you pay.

As for Cyprus - my mistake. Only now I found Betfair is not available there.

So, according to previous posts (Optional mentioned it as first, in post number 14) maybe Ireland is good option.

But I do not like uk/Irish weather.

Malta weather is much friendly and would be OK, but I am afraid that they really would apply the tax duty for professional bettors there.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

But I do not like uk/Irish weather.
.

Channel Islands maybe? Little bit more southern, access to native pinnacle accounts.

[SBE]

Channel Islands maybe? Little bit more southern, access to native pinnacle accounts.

Thank you, but I do not know...


It is somewhere in "the end of the world". Travelling there , for sure, a little bit complicated.

It is nice Pinnacle and Betfair would probably work there (I need them both).

Internet connection quality ? Food shops ? Vegetable and fruit markets ? Yes, I would google it, if it was acceptable (the Channel islands, I

mean).

And in the end, my wife would not like it at all, I am afraid...She likes warm and sunny locations (Dubai, south of Spain, etc.).

[Jogador]

A while back I had opened a similar thread. I think key parameter would be a destination where offshore gambling (asian brokers/bookies) is allowed and winnings from them are free of tax (or tax is limited). Soft bookies winnings being tax free doesn't offer much to the pro (due to limiting).

I am under the impression that scandinavian countries are somewhat favorable. If I am not mistaken, pinni recently got a license with them. Research on the that pending.

Another route would be the corporate one. Meaning, setting up a trading company in Malta and holding a corporate account with an Asian Broker. In that case tax would be 5% (Malta corp profit tax 35% rate, 30% refunded), plus around 4-5k annual company expenses (directorship, accounting etc), plus the dividends tax which depends on where the the company holder resides (usually anywere from 5 to 15%). This is supposed to be working, though I have no personal experience of someone actually doing that. Key factor would be the service provider (who provides directorship etc).

As someone mentioned, problem with this discussion is, anyone who has this figured out, is hesitant sharing the solution.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

It is somewhere in "the end of the world". Travelling there , for sure, a little bit complicated.
Internet connection quality ? Food shops ? Vegetable and fruit markets ? Yes, I would google it, if it was acceptable (the Channel islands, I
mean).
And in the end, my wife would not like it at all, I am afraid...She likes warm and sunny locations (Dubai, south of Spain, etc.).

It is a little remote, in a sense. Having said that, it's only about 90 minutes by ferry to France. There are a few European locations from the airport too, but mostly it links to UK destinations.

re:internet, Jersey has full fibre available everywhere, up to 1gbit/sec. Not sure about Guernsey.

But yeah, if you're looking for Dubai type weather, this isn't it.

[CIS]

As for Cyprus - my mistake. Only now I found Betfair is not available there.

So, according to previous posts (Optional mentioned it as first, in post number 14) maybe Ireland is good option.

But I do not like uk/Irish weather.

Malta weather is much friendly and would be OK, but I am afraid that they really would apply the tax duty for professional bettors there.

Yes cyprus is somewhat grey area. The island is split up basically in terms of political power so one half of the island is not allowing brick and mortar gambling facilities and other half has around 30 of them...
I also researched about Philippines simply because of many pure Asian agents accept Philippines Pesos and residents but their BIR answer made me hesitant. I qoute: "In reply, we would like to inform you that prizes or winnings are subject to a final tax rate of twenty percent (20%) pursuant to Section 24 (B) (1) of the Tax Code that was amended further by Section 5 of Republic Act 10963 also known as TRAIN Law:

Section 5. Section 24 of the NIRC, as amended, is hereby further amended to read as follows:
“Sec. 24. Income Tax Rates.—"

Otherwise would be perfect country in my opinion. Cheap, good weather, English second language, safe country in terms of banks and living, ok internet etc. Regarding with Malta, i still dont have any answer...

[CIS]

A while back I had opened a similar thread. I think key parameter would be a destination where offshore gambling (asian brokers/bookies) is allowed and winnings from them are free of tax (or tax is limited). Soft bookies winnings being tax free doesn't offer much to the pro (due to limiting).
I am under the impression that scandinavian countries are somewhat favorable. If I am not mistaken, pinni recently got a license with them. Research on the that pending.

Another route would be the corporate one. Meaning, setting up a trading company in Malta and holding a corporate account with an Asian Broker. In that case tax would be 5% (Malta corp profit tax 35% rate, 30% refunded), plus around 4-5k annual company expenses (directorship, accounting etc), plus the dividends tax which depends on where the the company holder resides (usually anywere from 5 to 15%). This is supposed to be working, though I have no personal experience of someone actually doing that. Key factor would be the service provider (who provides directorship etc).

As someone mentioned, problem with this discussion is, anyone who has this figured out, is hesitant sharing the solution.

Scandinavian countries only Finland should have gambling winnings without tax. Other countries like Sweden, Norway and Estonia(where i am from altough its not really Scandinavia) have all mixed tax scheme regarding with gambling. In Estonia for example, if you bet on local bookmaker who has local license you are free from tax. But if you win on offshore bookie or asian or simply any bookmaker who does not have a local licence, you must pay 20% tax from your winnings. Same applies to the Sweden with tax rate 30% and Norway(subject to income tax on winnings that exceed NOK 10k). So Scandinavia pretty bad option if you ask me. Unless you only bet on Pinnacle, then it makes sense but you have to take into consideration the cost of living in Scandinavian countries also. Plus the cold weather issue. Of course, thats just my personal opinion

[Camma23]

Another route would be the corporate one. Meaning, setting up a trading company in Malta and holding a corporate account with an Asian Broker. In that case tax would be 5% (Malta corp profit tax 35% rate, 30% refunded), plus around 4-5k annual company expenses (directorship, accounting etc), plus the dividends tax which depends on where the the company holder resides (usually anywere from 5 to 15%). This is supposed to be working, though I have no personal experience of someone actually doing that. Key factor would be the service provider (who provides directorship etc).

As someone mentioned, problem with this discussion is, anyone who has this figured out, is hesitant sharing the solution.

This is an interesting point and it's in my mind as well. Before jumping into it, there is a preliminary question : to make it perfectly legal, you (we) should move into that country (Malta in your case - I read about Austria as well) to open and run such a company, or could we still operate from our country?

[CIS]

This is an interesting point and it's in my mind as well. Before jumping into it, there is a preliminary question : to make it perfectly legal, you (we) should move into that country (Malta in your case - I read about Austria as well) to open and run such a company, or could we still operate from our country?

Company route probs work best if you use only agent. But regarding with your question, if you hold EU passport which is part of Schengen then 90+% of the chance you dont have to reside in the country where the company is registred. A company in that case is just a shell. You can rent local address but in this business, you dont need staff and bookkeeper you can hire as a service. Also you can buy a company from the country which has best taxes for LLC. Going into corporate route is much much better if you only need to use agents which allows a corporate to open account tbh.

[Camma23]

Company route probs work best if you use only agent. But regarding with your question, if you hold EU passport which is part of Schengen then 90+% of the chance you dont have to reside in the country where the company is registred. A company in that case is just a shell. You can rent local address but in this business, you dont need staff and bookkeeper you can hire as a service. Also you can buy a company from the country which has best taxes for LLC. Going into corporate route is much much better if you only need to use agents which allows a corporate to open account tbh.

yes man, i work only with agents and I've also heard from other people that's the best route. So thank you, you've just confirmed what I thought!

Coming back to my doubt, I hope it's like you say, also from a taxation point of view. Honestly I don't want to move and I just look for safe and clear solution from my country, even if i've to pay some taxes on my profits. As individual, actually we can't do it. Same apply to Spain for Jogador , the guy who was suggesting this way few messages before

[SBE]

Probably nobody mentioned Gibraltar here yet ? If so (and I did not notice) I apologize...

Though it is not just suitable for me (very small "country" , or territory, only something over 6 square km),

quite expensive rentals, and for sure, everything around...

Maybe somebody could like (or use) it.

Both "my" main bookies are legal (and accesible) there, as I can find them in the bookmaker's "join us " list.


I do not know how it is with taxes, but should (or could) be same/similar like in UK (as they still have "strong

relationship").

[habitualwinning]

There's gotta be a reason almost all famous pro gamblers have their hometown listed as Las Vegas, Monaco or Macau right? If not then why do so many claim to live there?

[Jogador]

This is an interesting point and it's in my mind as well. Before jumping into it, there is a preliminary question : to make it perfectly legal, you (we) should move into that country (Malta in your case - I read about Austria as well) to open and run such a company, or could we still operate from our country?

On paper such a company would be running based in Malta by the appointed service provider, who provides directorship (or co-directorship), secretary, adress etc. You wouldn't need to move (and perhaps even the tax incentives would cease for Malta residents, not sure though).

Question possibly is whether the tax authorities of the shareholder's (company owner) residence country would bother questioning the "real" seat of the company or whether they would just collect their dividends tax and stfu.

[CIS]

There's gotta be a reason almost all famous pro gamblers have their hometown listed as Las Vegas, Monaco or Macau right? If not then why do so many claim to live there?

Yes because Monaco is tax heaven, Macau has very little income tax(its leveled based on income), Las Vegas i do not know. Those countries are good for personal tax. If you do this under LLC then the company owners real hometown most of the times does not matter. Best would be doing this under some corporate scheme with best tax schemes in mind. Everything depends on motives and need to be researched based on ones needs.

[lonnie55]

There's gotta be a reason almost all famous pro gamblers have their hometown listed as Las Vegas, Monaco or Macau right? If not then why do so many claim to live there?

Well, the obvious reasons are: You have the poker tournaments, sportsbooks, casinos right on your doorstep and it's legal. When it comes to Monaco, it's commonly perceived as a tax haven and a place to be for the super rich (which makes it also a super expensive place for living). I don't know about tax rules in Vegas or Macau.

[CIS]

As for Cyprus - my mistake. Only now I found Betfair is not available there.

So, according to previous posts (Optional mentioned it as first, in post number 14) maybe Ireland is good option.

But I do not like uk/Irish weather.

Malta weather is much friendly and would be OK, but I am afraid that they really would apply the tax duty for professional bettors there.

Yes, you were right. Its all about balancing, not showing maybe all your profits or something like that. But, i got answer from Maltese tax agency. I qoute:
"Under the Gaming Act. no tax is withheld on online gambling winnings. Taxes and fees are collected from the operators, not from the gamblers.

However, any individual who gambles for a living, whether online or not, is obliged to declare the income earned under the Income Tax Act. The income earned in any calendar year should be declared in the tax return to be filed by the end of June of the following year. Therefore, if you carried out the activity of gambling in 2019, you should declare you winnings for the year, together with any other taxable income you might have had, in the tax return to be filed by the end of June 2020."

So best option would be to earn some money via other job, to have some kind of a salary and gamble on "side". I think it still does not matter if you make 10x more with gambling because you dont gamble for living, you still have a job.

[Optional]

"However, any individual who gambles for a living, whether online or not, is obliged to declare the income earned under the Income Tax Act. The income earned in any calendar year should be declared in the tax return to be filed by the end of June of the following year. Therefore, if you carried out the activity of gambling in 2019, you should declare you winnings for the year, together with any other taxable income you might have had, in the tax return to be filed by the end of June 2020."

Does that mean if you pay tax on winnings this year, you will be able to claim your losses as a deduction next year?

[lonnie55]

I think it still does not matter if you make 10x more with gambling because you dont gamble for living, you still have a job.

Not so sure about that one. If the vast majority of your income comes from sports betting, some countries might consider sports betting as the source of your main income, no matter what your official job is (e.g. Germany).

Besides, why would anyone choose to live in Malta, a country with a highly corrupt mafia-like political system dominated by a few families?

[acquavallo]

From the Isle of Malta: Baron Mikel Scicluna!!!

[byronbb]

I mean you might get robbed but Dominican Republic has B&M books everywhere and you can use 5dimes/pinny etc as well.

[SBE]

I have a friend, we were betting together for about 15 years, in the past. But he is now (last 3 years) doing only

"financial markets" and he told me maybe Panama could be OK. Some condition, you must live there some part of

every year, the rest of the year you can live anywhere else. But there is 0 % tax of earnings on financial markets ( I

do not know how betting, but I hope same), but you must trade only in foreign companies (not having a Panama

license). He does not speak English or Spanish, so he is not interested in that (to move to Panama, or manage a

residence there, at least) anymore...

[SBE]

Yes, you were right. Its all about balancing, not showing maybe all your profits or something like that. But, i got answer from Maltese tax agency. I qoute:
"Under the Gaming Act. no tax is withheld on online gambling winnings. Taxes and fees are collected from the operators, not from the gamblers.

However, any individual who gambles for a living, whether online or not, is obliged to declare the income earned under the Income Tax Act. The income earned in any calendar year should be declared in the tax return to be filed by the end of June of the following year. Therefore, if you carried out the activity of gambling in 2019, you should declare you winnings for the year, together with any other taxable income you might have had, in the tax return to be filed by the end of June 2020."

So best option would be to earn some money via other job, to have some kind of a salary and gamble on "side". I think it still does not matter if you make 10x more with gambling because you dont gamble for living, you still have a job.

Thank you for posting their reply , here.

It is sad, sportsbetting (as our only one source of income) is also taxed.

So Malta is " out " of the competition now...

[CIS]

Does that mean if you pay tax on winnings this year, you will be able to claim your losses as a deduction next year?

Probably not. No one in tax agency comes and checks your activity or bets. Maybe if its a corporation then its possible but then again, corporations mostly have dividend taxes so thats another story...
I think as long as you declare something you would be fine. Lets say you made 100k last year and declared 50k of it which another 50 you basically spent on daily stuff then it would be ok. Atleast in some countries its like that.

[CIS]

Not so sure about that one. If the vast majority of your income comes from sports betting, some countries might consider sports betting as the source of your main income, no matter what your official job is (e.g. Germany).

Besides, why would anyone choose to live in Malta, a country with a highly corrupt mafia-like political system dominated by a few families?

Actually in this case i read the Tax Act also and i came to understanding that if you have a regular job then its ok not to pay tax on your winnings. Otherwise, a person could make 20k per year from his avg job and win on a single night 100k and he would be considered as a professional. Therefore need to pay tax. The law itself does not state a meaning for professional gambler. Which means you are all good as long as you dont gamble for "living."

[Sawyer]

I wrote them an email regarding the (same) question. Lets see what they answer. Any information about Cyprus? R

North Cyprus aka TRNC (Turkish Republic of North Cpyrus) is great for sports betting. Basically, it's Turkish Vegas. Casinos everywhere, majority of casinos have sportsbooks. Best of all, no taxes!

[SBE]

North Cyprus aka TRNC (Turkish Republic of North Cpyrus) is great for sports betting. Basically, it's Turkish Vegas. Casinos everywhere, majority of casinos have sportsbooks. Best of all, no taxes!

That "republic" you writing about officially does not exist. It is recognised only by Turkey. So it does not appear at any "Join us" bookmaker's

list, to open an account. If it was considered as "Turkish area", I am afraid, sportsbetting (or gambling) is prohibited in Turkey (99 % of inhabitants are muslims).

So North Cyprus most probably is not a solution.

I am looking for a country, I can send "my bookies" proof of my home address, as they change my residence and also it must be a tax free

country (as for gambling for living).



OK. I did not read (the sawyer' post) carefully and must confirm, yes, there are some Hotels with casinos inside, in Kyrenia and Famagusta. But still I cannot imagine this: what will a bookmaker do if I send them an query to change my residence to a place in North Cyprus ? Will they pay me out and close my account (as they do not offer services for residents living in North Cyprus) ?
Anyway, I was on holiday (once) in Turkey (Side) and 4 times in Cyprus (southern), Larnaca.
If I can choose for living, for sure south of Cyprus (but one of my most important bookies closed their business for Cyprus few years ago).

[Brooklyn Dick]

Try the Dominican Republic. Hundreds of walk in books all over, no tax of any kind on winnings. Also they could care less about offshore gaming either.

[Black777]

Try the Dominican Republic. Hundreds of walk in books all over, no tax of any kind on winnings. Also they could care less about offshore gaming either.

What about residency permit for EU citizens?!
I do not think it is that straight forward. EU are not able to stay there more than 90 days unless they apply for a residency permit, which might be complicated to get.

[nerdyguy]

Try the Dominican Republic. Hundreds of walk in books all over, no tax of any kind on winnings. Also they could care less about offshore gaming either.

Do you have any link of their bookie to check on offer they have? Quite interesting