Cloudbet confiscated $15,000 due to providing verification documents from USA citizen

[DoubleRedDragon]

Hello, Cloudbet just confiscated $15,000 in my account and froze/closed my account and told me it was their final communication on the matter and that I won't be receiving the money owed for the withdrawal. It was 65 bitcoin cash. It's a long story but it comes down to them not wanting to pay the money owed on the account, of $15,000 won through wagers on sports. They said their reasoning is that USA citizens aren't allowed to wager, even if in Mexico and that all bets will be voided and not paid out.

If there's anything anyone can do to help me get what is owed I'd appreciate so much. It's a lot of money and I'm almost out of money as it is. It was like a lifeline to me and I never saw this coming. It's not fair. Do you agree? Please help.

[DoubleRedDragon]

Dear efxes, We are writing to confirm that after you kindly forwarded the documentation we requested, your account has been verified. Cloudbet would like to thank you for your patience and understanding with regards to this matter and furthermore, apologise for any inconvenience that you may have incurred as a result. Security for both our clients and company is a top priority to ensure that our clients experience with Cloudbet is one they can trust. As we do not accept players from your jurisdiction we have voided all of your bets and permanently closed your account. By opening an account from a restricted country, you have breached our Terms & Conditions, thus you will not be able to continue using our website. As this specific term state; 7.1.3. You agree that at all times when using the Website, including making requests for withdrawal or transfers of funds, you are not physically located in any of the following countries: the United States of America and its territories; United Kingdom; Hong Kong; Singapore; For more information, kindly visit our Terms & Conditions; https://www.cloudbet.com/en/help/terms We can also confirm, that you have withdrawn more than the deposited amount, therefore, there is no remaining balance to be withdrawn. Should your circumstances change in the future and you register from a location not restricted, we would be happy to welcome you back to the site. If there is anything else we can assist you with, please feel free to contact our support team again. Kind regards, Molly Senior Customer Support Representative

[vanzack]

In that explanation - it says you opened it from the USA. Did you do that?

Your explanation in post 1 is not entirely accurate. You state that you are not getting paid because you are a US Citizen. Your citizenship has nothing to do with this. There are plenty of Americans living abroad or with a foreign presence, and books that have restrictions on geolocation allow for this as long as ALL of your interactions with the website originate from an accepted country, and that you can provide residency documentation.

It sure sounds like you either set up your account, or bet from your account from the USA.

It sucks, but it is a consequence of laws and politics none of us can control. I have sympathy for you, but think you need to be honest about when and where you used the site.

PS Edit... It also appears in their letter to you that you got your original deposit back, and that they are withholding winnings only. You weren't exactly transparent about that in your post.

[littlekona]

they have been freerolling USA players for years. At least you got your deposit back. Nitro, Betcoin and Fairlay are only BTC exclusive I trust for USA

[DoubleRedDragon]

totally agree and would never bet here again, but I really am hoping something gets done about this. I've been filing complaints with a few sites, and I just want the winnings. I must be down well into the six figures over the many years I've been doing this. It may be "winnings' but it's more just like a consolation prize, and even then it's confiscated over citizenship. and yes I gamble overseas, not on US soil and am being truthful. This is no reason to confiscate a large sum of money.

[littlekona]

totally agree and would never bet here again, but I really am hoping something gets done about this. I've been filing complaints with a few sites, and I just want the winnings. I must be down well into the six figures over the many years I've been doing this. It may be "winnings' but it's more just like a consolation prize, and even then it's confiscated over citizenship. and yes I gamble overseas, not on US soil and am being truthful. This is no reason to confiscate a large sum of money.

You have zero chance. be greatful they gave your deposits back. if they did it would open the door to all the others who they freerolled.

[Optional]

This sucks and it's not the first time they have done this. And it seems to only happen to decent size winners.

But they only care about using the account on USA soil, not your citizenship. And do have the right under their terms.

If you have never accessed the account when inside USA you have an argument?

[DoubleRedDragon]

Yeah I go down to Mexico to gamble in AirBnB's so maybe I have a chance. What a mess... it's just awful. I'm left with scraps now. I need something to happen here. I will have to see if I can give them documents from Mexico which obviously won't be easy to come up with since I rent down there.

[DontTailMe]

Yeah I go down to Mexico to gamble in AirBnB's so maybe I have a chance. What a mess... it's just awful. I'm left with scraps now. I need something to happen here. I will have to see if I can give them documents from Mexico which obviously won't be easy to come up with since I rent down there.

The documents will mean nothing if they have you recorded on a US IP address. I think that's what the guys above mean. If you've ever logged in from the US, you're not going to be able to trick them.

[DoubleRedDragon]

i use vpn's though, and sometimes it accidentally switches over to a USA vpn because it's the fastest, not sure if you've experienced that.

[vanzack]

A dedicated directed (by you) VPN costs about 100 bucks a year. Seems like a ridiculously low cost to accomplish what you need it to.

[vampire assassin]

This is pretty shitty. They marketed to US people, and now they act surprised and claim innocence?

[ace7550]

With a B rating it seems like they should handle this in a more legitimate way.
Just to clarify, what country did you register in? You go to Mexico to gamble out of airbnb's? Please explain.

[DroopyDog]

If you are down 6 figures, tell them, ok, void all bets, and return deposits.

Better bet is to file complaint at AskGamblers

They seem to be very effective

[milwaukee mike]

If you are down 6 figures, tell them, ok, void all bets, and return deposits.

Better bet is to file complaint at AskGamblers

They seem to be very effective

he is down 6 figures gambling overall

way UP at cloudbet which is why they are stealing his winnings... would never see a sportsbook close an account or void losing bets

[mrpapageorgio]

If you are down 6 figures, tell them, ok, void all bets, and return deposits.

Better bet is to file complaint at AskGamblers

They seem to be very effective

They did return his deposit, they're just withholding the winnings.

[Optional]

With a B rating it seems like they should handle this in a more legitimate way.
Just to clarify, what country did you register in? You go to Mexico to gamble out of airbnb's? Please explain.

The book should make reasonable efforts to identify illegal-jurisdiction players before they win/lose large amounts. If they don't, they are free rolling any "innocent" players who do it unknowingly.

But once it's done, what do you suggest is more legitimate than cancelling action and returning the deposit?

If they pay out action in this sort of circumstance, then players would be able to VPN in and try to freeroll the other way...

[milwaukee mike]

The book should make reasonable efforts to identify illegal-jurisdiction players before they win/lose large amounts. If they don't, they are free rolling any "innocent" players who do it unknowingly.

But once it's done, what do you suggest is more legitimate than cancelling action and returning the deposit?

If they pay out action in this sort of circumstance, then players would be able to VPN in and try to freeroll the other way...

how is that freerolling? they are making bets that they could either win or lose.

is someone that is 20 years old that goes to a bar and buys drinks freerolling? same situation... if the bar took their money they can't really come back after the fact and steal back the drinks AND the money

[Optional]

how is that freerolling? they are making bets that they could either win or lose.

is someone that is 20 years old that goes to a bar and buys drinks freerolling? same situation... if the bar took their money they can't really come back after the fact and steal back the drinks AND the money

True, I guess it would be unlikely to play out that way in real life. But technically if Cloudbet had a license issuer with teeth, they should have to refund losers from illegal jurusictions.


Do you think there is a more legitimate way to handle this particular case than refund?

Happy to be convinced and give it a try if I have not thought of something...

[PharaohUB]

Seems strange. Why go through all that hassle and get air b n b in Mexico to play. Why run up your balance that high at a book that doesn’t want Americans. Is there something that attracted you to that book over a book that does take Americans ?

[DoubleRedDragon]

What can be done? I made the bets, they took the money. Yes I go to Mexico because I live here now. I like it. Why try and pick apart my story I'm clearly not the one stealing $15,000 from just some lonely gambler.

Please help guys and support me somehow. I need help in getting the funds back. I don't know what to do. I'm trying everything.

[ace7550]

What can be done? I made the bets, they took the money. Yes I go to Mexico because I live here now. I like it. Why try and pick apart my story I'm clearly not the one stealing $15,000 from just some lonely gambler.

Please help guys and support me somehow. I need help in getting the funds back. I don't know what to do. I'm trying everything.

We're asking you questions to get a better understanding of what happened. Lots of guys come on here and tell only one side of the story and try and trash a book that didn't do anything wrong. If you come on SBR and say that you've had 15k stolen from you be prepared to answer any and all questions pertaining to your story. If you end up having a legitimate claim SBR will certainly do anything they can to help you.
So...you've now stated that you "go to Mexico to gamble in airbnbs" and that you live there. Please explain.

[ace7550]

True, I guess it would be unlikely to play out that way in real life. But technically if Cloudbet had a license issuer with teeth, they should have to refund losers from illegal jurusictions.


Do you think there is a more legitimate way to handle this particular case than refund?

Happy to be convinced and give it a try if I have not thought of something...

IMO a book should stop taking action from a player the moment they see a wager being placed from an illegal jurisdiction. In the OPs story it sounds like he won a bunch of money and then Cloudbet didn't pay because some of the wagers were placed from a USA IP address. It sounds like they freerolled him. Unless they were planning on giving him his money back if he lost. Does that make sense or am I missing something?

[DoubleRedDragon]

I don't just go here to gamble, but ever since black friday on full tilt I've grown accustomed to the fact that this is what you have to do in order to play poker on a decent site.

I just have been living abroad for six months and came back to Mexico from Europe 3 months ago. I don't want to share all of the personal details on a public forum, I'd hope you would understand that.

The fact is $15,000 have been stiffed and I want to recover it- I also don't want it to seriously affect my personal life from here forward. I won the money, and now i have to pay in people trying to figure me out. It sucks. I didn't do anything wrong. I won a bunch of money sports betting and apparently another site doesn't want to take the complaint because I don't wager in casinos, which I will change in the future just to seem more degenerate.

I have been living off of US soil but I don't want to share all the minute details of my thought process and how I live my life. I'd seriously love anyone's support I can get. Please don't treat me with disdain.

We're asking you questions to get a better understanding of what happened. Lots of guys come on here and tell only one side of the story and try and trash a book that didn't do anything wrong. If you come on SBR and say that you've had 15k stolen from you be prepared to answer any and all questions pertaining to your story. If you end up having a legitimate claim SBR will certainly do anything they can to help you.
So...you've now stated that you "go to Mexico to gamble in airbnbs" and that you live there. Please explain.

[DoubleRedDragon]

IMO a book should stop taking action from a player the moment they see a wager being placed from an illegal jurisdiction. In the OPs story it sounds like he won a bunch of money and then Cloudbet didn't pay because some of the wagers were placed from a USA IP address. It sounds like they freerolled him. Unless they were planning on giving him his money back if he lost. Does that make sense or am I missing something?

This was very helpful, I appreciate the comment Ace and your feedback.

It's simply a freeroll. It's actually even more complicated but they pulled some serious stuff in order to trigger a security check and then freeze my account. I could share those details but some people have said it complicates the case when it doesn't need to since they are simply saying the funds are frozen due to providing a residence in the USA which was an expired internet bill I haven't paid for 6 months it was the last legit thing I had of a permanent residence and I really quickly sent that in hoping they would just unfreeze the account since I gave them legit info. But they said that was the finalized verification and they won't hear anything more becuase it proves I'm a USA resident. Yes I have a residence in USA, no I haven't even been there in 6 months, I let the utilities all expire. The apartment just sits there while I'm living abroad during the pandemic, at some point I will return.

They freerolled me. It is as obvious as it gets. I deposited $1,400 and ran it up to like $45,000 lost some back, kept withdrawing and depositing very large sums. Once they realized I wasn't going to lose it all back they started pulling shady stuff. I had already withdrawn a bunch of money but on the last run I lost like $14,000. I went to withdraw the last $15,000 and they triggered a security check. I had withdrawn and deposited since the initial run a few days earlier many times.

They realized they weren't going to recover what I initially lost and they also looked at my account figures and realized I was in the green and freerolled me. It's so simple. They flagged the security check and are trying to take the funds.

[hehfest]

Take a boat or a plane there, and tell them Anthony Guldinstein says hello!

[ace7550]

This was very helpful, I appreciate the comment Ace and your feedback.

It's simply a freeroll. It's actually even more complicated but they pulled some serious stuff in order to trigger a security check and then freeze my account. I could share those details but some people have said it complicates the case when it doesn't need to since they are simply saying the funds are frozen due to providing a residence in the USA which was an expired internet bill I haven't paid for 6 months it was the last legit thing I had of a permanent residence and I really quickly sent that in hoping they would just unfreeze the account since I gave them legit info. But they said that was the finalized verification and they won't hear anything more becuase it proves I'm a USA resident. Yes I have a residence in USA, no I haven't even been there in 6 months, I let the utilities all expire. The apartment just sits there while I'm living abroad during the pandemic, at some point I will return.

They freerolled me. It is as obvious as it gets. I deposited $1,400 and ran it up to like $45,000 lost some back, kept withdrawing and depositing very large sums. Once they realized I wasn't going to lose it all back they started pulling shady stuff. I had already withdrawn a bunch of money but on the last run I lost like $14,000. I went to withdraw the last $15,000 and they triggered a security check. I had withdrawn and deposited since the initial run a few days earlier many times.

They realized they weren't going to recover what I initially lost and they also looked at my account figures and realized I was in the green and freerolled me. It's so simple. They flagged the security check and are trying to take the funds.

Ok now I have a much better sense of what's going on. Sending them a utility bill from a US address was a bad move. I'm not saying you are in the wrong. I'm just saying it opened the door for them to keep your money. I believe that you were abroad these last months and that your wagering activity was legitimate.
Opti is probably going to be your best source of information for recourse. He's helped many SBR folks with these types of issues. I'm sure there is an entity you can appeal to. However you appeal, you will need to prove that you've been abroad the entire time you were using Cloudbet.
Good luck Dragon. I hope you are able to recover your money in the near future.

[themike78]

Why not just play at a book that accepts U.S players? There are plenty of them. That is the first thing I check before signing up with a book. You broke the rules and got caught. It sucks but that's what happens when you win big at places you are not allowed to play at.

[RedApples]

Honestly, don't know what you can do.. it sounds like you got caught using a VPN from the States.

Not saying you didn't, but had you not, your first course of action would've been immediately proving to them that you ARE in Mexico right now, and that you couldn't have been in the US. You would've requested to see their proof of you being in the US.

By your own admission, you were using a VPN in Mexico, that had a location in the USA. I've experienced similar to what you are saying, as a long time user of VPNs, but I've never ever had it 'accidentally' switch over to USA because its the fastest (sometimes it was faster but it was generally a negligible difference), and if it was on accident it was only my accident that I clicked it. It wouldn't just switch over. Not sure which you use, its not entirely implausible, but on the chance you were experiencing this it would be pretty quick and easy to prove to them that your normal static location was X and verifiable and the 'switch over' IP was an accident and was simply a VPN mis click. The more likely scenario per everything you stated is that your VPN dropped while you were in the States and it showed your true location in the States.

This is coming from someone who has also played at PokerStars pre black Friday, played in Mexico after, Europe, and bet on all sites using VPN. All legally except once on Pokerstars where I was caught, and eventually forgiven by them. Luckily with Pokerstars they were never looking to not pay players, and only did it because they couldn't offer products to those locations. I don't have any reason to not believe your story, aside from the fact the course of action you are taking is not making much sense. You got to prove that you were in Mexico, find out the IP addresses, and prove that the USA IP was the VPN and not the other way around. Sounds like you're SOL to be honest.

If everything you are saying is true, you must do what it takes to prove it to them. It shouldn't be too hard if you are being completely honest. Having peoples support here will not further this effort really. Unless you actually need advice... but knowing poker players and the way you speak you seem to know the angles already. I hope you get the money either way.

[RedApples]

P.S. if you are truly staying at an AirBnB, that you rented and its rented in your name... and the VPN switched to USA, then you can just show them those dates. It sounds like its been happening on and off for a very long time though and you thought that you would be in the clear. That goes for whether you were out of the USA or inside the USA. I've played from the USA showing that I was in Europe in times after I got back from there and then Mexico after I got back from there, and been through the same exact thing as it seems like you are doing (minus you stating that its the opposite). But again if it is the opposite, all you need to do is show your flights to the countries, certainly you will have rental agreements also (not entirely necessary but would help things). So long as you have these items 1. Flight (you couldn't have driven to Europe), 2. AirBnB records (seems like you are going to hold that you drove to Mexico if not telling the truth), and even if you never rented in your name and went with friends so that complicates things too you will still be able to rely on the Flight. And if all else fails, rely on the IP address being the static one.

Again, if all is true, theres very little to worry about. If you got caught using a VPN, you're done. PokerStars caught me using a VPN, its not that hard to do. There's really no fighting it if you did, and if you didn't it's literally the easiest thing to fight.

[RedApples]

Also, it is standard practice for the profits to be confiscated, which per PokerStars was part of the agreement made with the DOJ. So this has always been the case. After I was caught using a VPN from the States for a week period, I pleaded with them to reconsider and they did. I didn't try to pretend that I was in Mexico at the time, I manned up and admitted that I had been in the States and made the decision to play from the States, and thought I would get away with it because I would only be playing for a week and then going right back to Mexico. It doesn't sound like they free rolled you. It sounds like you were getting paid for a while and then they genuinely found that you were using a VPN, whether it was them reviewing your account or a flag in their system that alerted them to it.

Gotta say, I have to side with the earlier posts that your OP was deceptive, seemingly intentional and left out key information while also painting an inaccurate portrayal of what Cloudbet said, and why they said it.

Here was the final decision which is congruent with how you are being treated as far as not receiving your winnings. In case you think that forfeiture of profits is something new that only scam books do. Good luck. Again though, if you're being honest though you won't need it. If you are, I'm hopeful that you'll find the information I've posted helpful.

We are able to advise that PokerStars has completed the legal review of your account as a result of your real money activity while located in the United States. This legal review was conducted by PokerStars staff in agreement with a monitor appointed by the US Department of Justice.

The monitor and PokerStars agreed that all net winnings by players from within the United States would be forfeited by players. We believe that this is consistent with the PokerStars Terms of Service, which is available online here:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/tos/

PokerStars believes the following:

-Your first day of access to PokerStars real money services from inside the United States was 9/30/2012

-Your last day of access to PokerStars real money services from inside the United States was 10/8/2012

-During the above period, you had no net profit

Since you had no net profit while using PokerStars real money services from the United States, PokerStars will not be confiscating any funds from you.

However, let us be very clear – if you use PokerStars real money services from inside the United States again, PokerStars will close your account, and seize ALL funds therein. This will apply to all funds that are in your account at the time of detection, and not just net winnings.

This applies to all individuals who are detected using PokerStars services from the United States – not just residents or citizens of the United States. It applies to you whenever you visit the United States.

Consequently, your account has been reopened, and you are welcome to use your account in accordance with our ordinary rules.

We trust that this resolves this matter. If you should have any specific questions, or wish to dispute this decision, please email us anytime.

Regards,

[DoubleRedDragon]

I'm desperately trying to send them in documents from my mexican stay, don't know how to get a utility bill this fast but I've sent them in some airbnb receipts and a note from the person I'm more long term renting from. I'm really hoping they consider it and I will stop playing with them until I get a permanent residence somewehre outside of the USA. It's fine to take the money if I'm inside the USA but I pay tons of money just to travel and be able to do what I want so I appreciate you sharing your experience RedApples as well.

[littlekona]

I'm desperately trying to send them in documents from my mexican stay, don't know how to get a utility bill this fast but I've sent them in some airbnb receipts and a note from the person I'm more long term renting from. I'm really hoping they consider it and I will stop playing with them until I get a permanent residence somewehre outside of the USA. It's fine to take the money if I'm inside the USA but I pay tons of money just to travel and be able to do what I want so I appreciate you sharing your experience RedApples as well.

I think that the note just might do the trick expect your funds

[DoubleRedDragon]

what do you suggest i provide

[Optional]

what do you suggest i provide

A direct unambiguous statement saying "I did not open this account from the USA and have never accessed it from USA soil". And ask them exactly when it is that they believe you did so.

When they answer, be prepared to provide copies of your airline tickets/travel v isas/accommodation receipts to show you were away on those dates.


I cannot think of anything else that might work. Mexican utility bills for an Air BnB just fall under the category of accomodation receipts. Need a lot more than that.