5Dimes stole 14 500 USD

**Cookie Monster** · 05-13-11, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Jerm3462

Updated odds

Tony +290
Zabula -320

These lines remember me the 5dimes wrestlemania fiasco. And may end in the same way. How do you determine the winner? The ring announcer result, or the "official" one? If you end losing, would you pull a Tony? Would you agree to pay if the user cancels his SBR account?

**cyberinvestor** · 05-13-11, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by scott235

He posted cash upfront, found an edge, exploited it and won. Period. At the very most show him the door and close his account. Everything else is just silly nonsense. PAY HIM!!!!

If he had beat the game as a human I think Tony would have paid him. I think the issue is the bot play. Instead of playing 2000 hands a day to slowly bleed today, he played enough hands to impress a bot over a 30 day period.

**thegreen** · 05-13-11, 12:07 PM

why the hell would you play slow???? More table and faster the play the higher the ROI

Originally Posted by scott235
He posted cash upfront, found an edge, exploited it and won. Period. At the very most show him the door and close his account. Everything else is just silly nonsense. PAY HIM!!!!
If he had beat the game as a human I think Tony would have paid him. I think the issue is the bot play. Instead of playing 2000 hands a day to slowly bleed today, he played enough hands to impress a bot over a 30 day period.

**cyberinvestor** · 05-13-11, 12:11 PM

I just opened the first data file. He played from Friday April 1st at 2:09am ET straight through Saturday at 2am. 24 hours straight with no more than 1.5 second between hands. COME ON!

Then he started again (must have needed to reactivate the program) at 5:01:28AM ET on Saturday April 3rd and played straight until Sunday morning at 12:56AM ET and again no hand was more than 1.5 seconds apart. Then back at it again at 5AM ET on Sunday and then the data file ended at midnight.

Maybe a human could do this for an hour or two but come on!

**TexansFan** · 05-13-11, 12:12 PM

I have noticed that on the progressive Deuces Wild the 4 Deuces payout has been lowered from 1000 coins to 800.

**WVU** · 05-13-11, 12:13 PM

It is tough to come up with any conclusion so far with what I see of the hand history. The time varies between hands. Yes, he was playing fast but so what? I will provide proof that he can play at these speeds.

**thegreen** · 05-13-11, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

I just opened the first data file. He played from Friday April 1st at 2:09am ET straight through Saturday at 2am. 24 hours straight with no more than 1.5 second between hands. COME ON! Then he started again (must have needed to reactivate the program) at 5:01:28AM ET on Saturday April 3rd and played straight until Sunday morning at 12:56AM ET and again no hand was more than 1.5 seconds apart. Then back at it again at 5AM ET on Sunday and then the data file ended at midnight. Maybe a human could do this for an hour or two but come on!

You are clueless...People do this every day from poker to slots to video poker...called GRINDING!!!!! PAY THE MAN HIS MONEY!!!!

**clowncar** · 05-13-11, 12:20 PM

It's just really tough when the casino gets to make all the rules and then still doesn't pay when they lose.

**cyberinvestor** · 05-13-11, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by thegreen

You are clueless...People do this every day from poker to slots to video poker...called GRINDING!!!!! PAY THE MAN HIS MONEY!!!!

Oh please. That is laughable. Maybe you could come up with a better and more imformative reply than "pay the man his money". How many people after hitting a royal don't stop for 3 seconds at least? At some point during a 20 hour poker session you stop at least for 5 minutes to stretch and blink your eyes. This guy played for 20 hours without so much as sneezing.

**Jerm3462** · 05-13-11, 12:21 PM

I think I would have to take a leak at least once in 24 hours

**WVU** · 05-13-11, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

I just opened the first data file. He played from Friday April 1st at 2:09am ET straight through Saturday at 2am. 24 hours straight with no more than 1.5 second between hands. COME ON!

not true. There are breaks.

**WVU** · 05-13-11, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

Oh please. That is laughable. Maybe you could come up with a better and more imformative reply than "pay the man his money". How many people after hitting a royal don't stop for 3 seconds at least? At some point during a 20 hour poker session you stop at least for 5 minutes to stretch and blink your eyes. This guy played for 20 hours without so much as sneezing.

again. You post is inaccurate. He did not play nonstop

jw · 05-13-11, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

This guy played for 20 hours without so much as sneezing.

Not sure where you are looking - I only skipped through but saw a 4 min break and an 8 min break in the first few hours.

**scott235** · 05-13-11, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

If he had beat the game as a human I think Tony would have paid him. I think the issue is the bot play. Instead of playing 2000 hands a day to slowly bleed today, he played enough hands to impress a bot over a 30 day period.

Cyber, while I respect your POV, the fact is that bots are welcomed for -EV games, and the money is never refunded to players when they lose. I'm simply saying, bot or no bot the player should be payed, regardless of the rules. The rule itself is unethical.

**shari91** · 05-13-11, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by WVU

It is tough to come up with any conclusion so far with what I see of the hand history. The time varies between hands. Yes, he was playing fast but so what? I will provide proof that he can play at these speeds.

I'm curious to how you can prove that and I look forward to it! I had assumed you can play this game at these speeds as I tested out the SBR version myself and was flying even though I'd never played that game before. It's obviously very simple to play so I can only imagine what a pro would be able to do!

I just wonder how you can prove this unless the actual scenario was replicated and then the hands reviewed. Admittedly I'm relatively clueless when it comes to this stuff so I'm sure there's a rather more sophisticated way of proving that zabula could play for that long at those speeds which you'll show us.

**bubba** · 05-13-11, 12:27 PM

where there any mistakes? or was it perfect strategy the whole entire time?

**clowncar** · 05-13-11, 12:30 PM

The strategy is so simple that you could train a monkey to do it.

**clowncar** · 05-13-11, 12:30 PM

Are they going to start making bots that take staggered breaks now?

**thegreen** · 05-13-11, 12:31 PM

even if he did use a bot he outsmarted the system by playing most likely the only game that takes absolutely no thought process to play and can be done a lightning fast speeds by any casino player at almost any skill level....The burden of proof falls on the accuser and there is no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he used a bot looking at a good portion of the hands....Big time Grinder but no Bot IMO....PAY THE MAN HIS MONEY!!!!

**WVU** · 05-13-11, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by shari91

I'm curious to how you can prove that and I look forward to it! I had assumed you can play this game at these speeds as I tested out the SBR version myself and was flying even though I'd never played that game before. It's obviously very simple to play so I can only imagine what a pro would be able to do!

I just wonder how you can prove this unless the actual scenario was replicated and then the hands reviewed. Admittedly I'm relatively clueless when it comes to this stuff so I'm sure there's a rather more sophisticated way of proving that zabula could play for that long at those speeds which you'll show us.

I will give you a clue here. Zabula did not use a mouse. I am waiting on his permission to post the video.

**cyberinvestor** · 05-13-11, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by scott235

Cyber, while I respect your POV, the fact is that bots are welcomed for -EV games, and the money is never refunded to players when they lose. I'm simply saying, bot or no bot the player should be payed, regardless of the rules. The rule itself is unethical.

Very true. I don't disagree with your postion at all. For me it is sort of just a "way of the world" thing. If a player went into Vegas and lost in the casino at a game they cheated on, the casino wouldn't give them their money because they cheated. They just probably would never be caught because they lost. If the same player goes to Vegas and wins and Vegas catches him cheating, good bye. Cheating is cheating and if the rules for the casino are no bots, then that's the rule and using a bot is breaking the rules (cheating).

**WVU** · 05-13-11, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by clowncar

Are they going to start making bots that take staggered breaks now?

they always have. One would be stupid to use one that did not. The one I used could be set to break at random intervals for bathroom, meal, and even speep breaks and mine was designed over 10 years ago.

**shari91** · 05-13-11, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by WVU

I will give you a clue here. Zabula did not use a mouse. I am waiting on his permission to post the video.

Thanks WVU.

**clowncar** · 05-13-11, 12:36 PM

Summarily deciding he cheated with no evidence is bullshit and a ton of players won't find the recourse of SBR and just take it in the shorts.

**WVU** · 05-13-11, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by bubba

where there any mistakes? or was it perfect strategy the whole entire time?

irrelevant as the strategy is kindergarten simple. Most hands do not require a decision. There probably were mistakes, but the logs do not show the actual cards held. It focuses on the time between hands

**zabula11** · 05-13-11, 12:37 PM

Thank you man for your support. I am kinda shocked how uncomplete hand history is, but if you are so certain about your statement, you should watch more closely to hand history. Unfortunatelly my computer is slow for this hhuuuuge file so scroling down takes some time, but so far I am on line 1943, 1st April like you are saying, time 4:04:16, "seconds between" 261 4 and half minute.. probably going to toilet or taking some snack, red bull etc.. cant remember every minute of my stereotype life month back..
Then another rest was on 7:14 again April the first, line5174, for 491 seconds .. over eight minutes.. probably taking another snack/stretch etc...
So I wasnt playing for 24 hours in row as you are saying...

and another rests going... unfortunatell my computer crashed twice already searching this file... and like I told who of you knows my sleeping habits, supplements etc? What is so bad on playing hard? Like here was said before, if some of you cant play like hours and hours in row with short breaks, it doesnt mean nobody cant do it.. and if you consieder money I was playing for.. still not enought? Wouldnt you guys do such crazy things for 20 times of average salary?

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

I just opened the first data file. He played from Friday April 1st at 2:09am ET straight through Saturday at 2am. 24 hours straight with no more than 1.5 second between hands. COME ON!

Then he started again (must have needed to reactivate the program) at 5:01:28AM ET on Saturday April 3rd and played straight until Sunday morning at 12:56AM ET and again no hand was more than 1.5 seconds apart. Then back at it again at 5AM ET on Sunday and then the data file ended at midnight.

Maybe a human could do this for an hour or two but come on!

**thegreen** · 05-13-11, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

Very true. I don't disagree with your postion at all. For me it is sort of just a "way of the world" thing. If a player went into Vegas and lost in the casino at a game they cheated on, the casino wouldn't give them their money because they cheated. They just probably would never be caught because they lost. If the same player goes to Vegas and wins and Vegas catches him cheating, good bye. Cheating is cheating and if the rules for the casino are no bots, then that's the rule and using a bot is breaking the rules (cheating).

I see him taking breaks in the history BUT where in the TOS or rules is it posted that you can not play for 20+ hours straight???? And if you do your balance will be seized? WTF!!!!! PAY THE MAN!!! Should give him 10% added for all the BS he has to go through!!!!

**durito** · 05-13-11, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

I just opened the first data file. He played from Friday April 1st at 2:09am ET straight through Saturday at 2am. 24 hours straight with no more than 1.5 second between hands. COME ON!

Then he started again (must have needed to reactivate the program) at 5:01:28AM ET on Saturday April 3rd and played straight until Sunday morning at 12:56AM ET and again no hand was more than 1.5 seconds apart. Then back at it again at 5AM ET on Sunday and then the data file ended at midnight.

Maybe a human could do this for an hour or two but come on!

not accurate

261 second break at 4:04am friday
491 second break at 7:14am friday
491 second break at 9:38am friday
491 second break at 1:18pm friday

only odd thing here is that all 3 of those breaks are 491.3 seconds

**clowncar** · 05-13-11, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by WVU

they always have. One would be stupid to use one that did not. The one I used could be set to break at random intervals for bathroom, meal, and even speep breaks and mine was designed over 10 years ago.

I agree it would be stupid not to. I don't know anything about bots/programming but find it interesting. I do know the rate of play of your average professional VP player, and have a good idea of how many errors a professional VP player makes on more difficult strategies, expecially in cases where the strategy changes as the game is being played ( Ultimate X or multi-strike for instance ). They don't make many there.

**cyberinvestor** · 05-13-11, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by durito

not accurate 261 second break at 4:04am friday 491 second break at 7:14am friday 491 second break at 9:38am friday 491 second break at 1:18pm friday only odd thing here is that all 3 of those breaks are 491.3 seconds

Thank you. While you showed my errors in my data sort on Excel you also found something I then did not. I do acknowledge I must have screwed something up not to see these breaks. Now that I see them it is a little odd that all the breaks are 491 seconds. Not 490 in one case and 492 in another but 491.3 seconds EXACTLY.

Nobody here will never know this for sure but the evidence just does not go in the players favor.

**WVU** · 05-13-11, 12:49 PM

Surely Lou, Bill or someone from SBR has had a chance to analyze these play logs. Can someone who has looked at thes logs post what they have found instead of letting us all play around with it throwing out random guesses?

**durito** · 05-13-11, 12:50 PM

7:07pm 491.4
7:19pm 272
11:57pm 254

**clowncar** · 05-13-11, 12:52 PM

If a bot was used then I hope he doesn't get "caught". Will check in later.

**cyberinvestor** · 05-13-11, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by durito

7:07pm 491.4 7:19pm 272 11:57pm 254

He must have been slow getting back from the bathroom at the 7:07pm break. Instead of the 491.3 seconds at breaks 7:14am Friday, 9:38am Friday, and 1:18pm Friday he took an extra tenth of a second. I guess he is human after all, it shows he was SLOWING DOWN!

I hope he gets paid because it's not coming out of my pocket. But on the principle of the situation he did break the rules. If he does get paid he should have WVU help him create a better bot to better act like human life and thereby more random break times.

**shari91** · 05-13-11, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by durito

not accurate 261 second break at 4:04am friday 491 second break at 7:14am friday 491 second break at 9:38am friday 491 second break at 1:18pm friday only odd thing here is that all 3 of those breaks are 491.3 seconds

I was literally coming in here to ask if anyone had attempted to analyse the data yet at all. I started to but I'd be wasting my time when so many others could do it much quicker and efficiently than I ever could. I'm happy to know you're doing it.