5Dimes stole 14 500 USD

[KGambler]

[quote=Kaabee;9984291]

Also, 5Dimes hurt itself by putting up a +EV game for players. Not just 0.5 or 0.7%, but a crazy 11% (although I have not confirmed the EV, since I don't know the payout chart when the player paid).

It was 56000 for royal and 12500 for four deuces (at the max bet of 5 coins)
wizardofodds and vpgenius both come up with 113.5%

That should say 55,000 for a royal, not 56,000. The edge was 12.74% if I remember correctly.

[shari91]

In case someone misses this in Bill's Conclusion thread, here is the final decision regarding zabula's case:

Bill Dozer:

"On the topic of rules in general, they aren't the end all. There is a fair use factor. A player can't lose and and then win less back and not be paid because the rule said no bots and he used a bot. The book can't say no correlated parlays and then go back and reverse a random time frame where they happened to lose a la sportsbook.com. A No-past-posting rule doesn't mean the book can leave lines up an extra 5 minutes and wait for the outcome to alert the player his bet came in late. In some cases rules can't predict the outcome. In some cases software behavior trumps rules as in the correlated parlay case or Oddsmaker's rule that says no parlays or you lose everything. Written rules trump when a clerk obviously misquotes a bonus.

Regarding the risk to the player, he already did get paid on his bot play once. He's not paying that back. He also knew the odds were in his favor and used the bot. We stated on the book's behalf that if there was any doubt he used a bot, he would be paid in full. The math is always interesting but in this dispute, the player will get nothing more.

5Dimes wrote to SBR after the conclusion of this case saying they are refunding all losers of this game from March 1 on, the time when they show the payout odds were at 112%. 25 players will see a credit to their account at the start of the week."

[KGambler]

This could have been an intentional trap set by Tony. A guy could attack this game with $500-1,000 and PROBABLY bust out and give up. Now when Zabala wins, the bot rule is there ( shouldn't be needed for other than live poker). Anybody playing this game at 20,000 hands a day for a month would use a bot.

The game itself is so odd, that it would only attract WVU types. Certainly 5D would check this out thoroughly before offering it. I bet they made money off of this 112% game !

Show me one other casino ( slot) game where you routinely play thousands of hands before getting any payout whatsoever. Even lotteries don't work like that !

5D can be a bit shady on grading unusual bets ....like props on the 1st eighth of a game or when the 1st score occurs timewise ( NFL), they fix it when you prove them wrong only, you can make good money grading winners as losers until challenged, none of these books are too trustworthy.

I discovered this game back in 2009. I independently contacted two people who are VP experts in order to ask them what they thought of the game. Both of them told me not to play. I was kind of shocked they both assumed the game was rigged, but it did scare me enough to keep me away for a while.

Like you say, I could see that the design of the game means that you would have to play hundreds of thousands of hands before you could be sure the game was legit and not rigged.

I think 5Dimes should release the hand histories in total. I would like to look at the actual cards dealt. It sounds like the player did run a bit below expectation here, although 5Dimes seemed shocked he could win so much.

[KGambler]

In case someone misses this in Bill's Conclusion thread, here is the final decision regarding zabula's case:

Bill Dozer:

"On the topic of rules in general, they aren't the end all. There is a fair use factor. A player can't lose and and then win less back and not be paid because the rule said no bots and he used a bot. The book can't say no correlated parlays and then go back and reverse a random time frame where they happened to lose a la sportsbook.com. A No-past-posting rule doesn't mean the book can leave lines up an extra 5 minutes and wait for the outcome to alert the player his bet came in late. In some cases rules can't predict the outcome. In some cases software behavior trumps rules as in the correlated parlay case or Oddsmaker's rule that says no parlays or you lose everything. Written rules trump when a clerk obviously misquotes a bonus.

Regarding the risk to the player, he already did get paid on his bot play once. He's not paying that back. He also knew the odds were in his favor and used the bot. We stated on the book's behalf that if there was any doubt he used a bot, he would be paid in full. The math is always interesting but in this dispute, the player will get nothing more.

5Dimes wrote to SBR after the conclusion of this case saying they are refunding all losers of this game from March 1 on, the time when they show the payout odds were at 112%. 25 players will see a credit to their account at the start of the week."

March 1st? I sent 2 PMs over at 2+2 in August of 2009.

Here is one:

Hi XXXX,

I am a poker player and sportsbettor, but I don't know much about casino games. You seem to really know alot about this subject, so I thought I would ask you about a strange VP game which supposedly has a huge edge.

I read a post (in Other Gambling Games) concerning 5Dime's Bonus Casino's +EV Full Pay Deuces Wild VP game. Well, it seems the 100.76% payout machine is not always available and has a low limit.

While looking through their games, I noticed that the Wizard of Odds' VP analyzer says that their "Royal Jackpot Deuces Wild" game has an EV of +12.74%! You can only play 25 cents max, and the volatility is extreme, but can this calculation be right?

The game only pays out for Natural Royals and Four Dueces (and nothing else), so I also wonder how well this analyzer program can be mimicking the true optimal strategy. Of course, that would mean that the true EV would probably be even higher!

Here are the payouts:

Natural Royal = 11,000
Four Deuces = 2,500

Again, you can only play a max of 25c (min is 5c and payouts don't change). I realize that the limit is very low, and volatility is very high, but it seems shocking that their could be a +13% EV game in an online casino.

What do you think?

Thanks,

What is with 5Dimes throwing out this fake March 1st date?

Also, could we see the actual hand histories (including cards)?

[KGambler]

The rule is reasonable. It's no different in Vegas. Good luck hooking up your computer to a one armed bandit.

The rule is also in our favor. It protects our funds in the sportsbook. Why? Because these sportsbooks have no way of knowing precisely what they bring into their house with this type of software. Tony was fooled. Do you really think he would knowingly bring in a game with that type of disadvantage to the house? Who sold him such a sh*tty program? Who programmed it? Who else bought it or similar crap? What else is in that software that they don't know about? Backdoors perhaps? What happened to 5D here is not about 14K. The issue is much bigger than that. Think organized online crime and a worst case scenario. Who here would want their sportsbook funds at risk because of some weakness in the casino?

This is the second time you have rambled about this. I guess I will have to take the time to correct you, in case you confuse someone else. Tony set the payouts for this game. DGS provides the games, but the operator can set the payouts however he wants. It is not the software provider's fault if the operator changes the default settings to make the game +EV. That is what happened here. This payout table did not exist anywhere else.

Please reread all posts by SBR employees in this thread. One of them stated that Tony said he changed the payout table himself.

[Bill Dozer]

March 1st is also the day the bot player started. Whether it was actually overpaying before that to lucky players is not relevant to the pro-bot player argument.

Crediting casino game losers during that time is just something they wanted to do after the dispute and was not suggested by SBR and wasn't part of any resolution.

[cyberinvestor]

March 1st is also the day the bot player started. Whether it was actually overpaying before that to lucky players is not relevant to the pro-bot player argument.

Crediting casino game losers during that time is just something they wanted to do after the dispute and was not suggested by SBR and wasn't part of any resolution.

Say what you want about Tony but he does not have to make this offer. Zabula made money off 5D and collected so he was paid something for his effort to find this edge and now all players for the last two months will get a credit if they lost at this game.

[KGambler]

I cannot believe how many people got pissed off by me posting. I just pointed out things as I saw them. Things that did not add up and low and behold the guy used a bot. I do not use an SBR Posting Bot so I am not perfect in my posts and will make mistakes. I will gladly acknowledge them, as I did, when people point them out. That is the point of a discussion forum, to have a discussion.

The problem is people didn't want to have a discussion. They wanted Zabula blindly paid. Anyone who took the other side of this case and said he used a bot and broke the rules was attacked. My position or evidence was never attacked, I was attacked personally. Which shows the weakness in the other side of the case.

All the "informed" people said he was not using a bot. How did that work out? Looks like you didn't need to be informed to smell the rat here.

This is just like all of your other posts... full of such total and complete nonsense that it is not even worth addressing.

Is there a way to put a poster on ignore???

[KGambler]

It sounds like the player did run a bit below expectation here, although 5Dimes seemed shocked he could win so much.

When I wrote that, I didn't realize the player was playing for less than 25c a spin. It sounds like he was playing for 5-10 cents a spin most of the time. Playing for 5c a spin, as opposed to 25c a spin, brings the player expecation down from over $30 profit per hour to around $6 per hour.

I agree with WVU. Tony got off easy... If someone with a bankroll and a reasonable bot had attacked this game, we would be talking about a much bigger figure.

I would still like to see the actual cards dealt though.

[cyberinvestor]

Why not attack the posts themselves instead of attacking me?

If I am so full of nonsense and dumb it should be easy for someone of your intelligence yet nobody will, just keep attacking me.

[KGambler]

Yes, oh great KGambler, I bow to you!

It's a shame you are not a little more self aware. Maybe then you would realize why people are attacking you and not your opinions. In short, your opinions on this matter are so ridiculous that it wouldn't make sense to engage you in discussion. Your conclusion that everyone wanted this guy blindly paid and that you were attacked for being the voice of reason is beyond ludicrous. Why don't you go back and re-read the thread? And please stop spamming the thread with nonsense...

[cyberinvestor]

If Bill or Lou feel I am spamming I will gladly stop. You have yet to attack my posts and what I say but instead just keep attacking me personally. I am not here to argue personal attacks back and forth.

[cyberinvestor]

My opinions have discussed contract law, data assessment of the raw files, the issues with the breaks, the English professor turning Borat, legal precedent, and more to which many of my detractors even agreed. I don't mind if you don't agree with me but attacking personally has no place. I have not spammed this thread or discussion and I welcome any SBR moderator or staff chiming in about my posts on this thread.

[shari91]

If Bill or Lou feel I am spamming I will gladly stop. You have yet to attack my posts and what I say but instead just keep attacking me personally. I am not here to argue personal attacks back and forth.

I'm not Bill or Lou, but I don't get the impression that you're spamming. I get the impression that you're attempting to give your opinions and add whatever you can to this thread.

Just try to remember that no one's experience or viewpoint will be the same on a case like this. You'll have some who could spit out math equations as easily as I could the latest nail polish colours and others who pop in and read the first few posts of this thread and feel the need to comment.

Your comments are more than welcome - as are everyone's. You're actually assisting those to understand who may not be as astute of a VP player or have a grasp of the mathematical implications in this case. And in hindsight, you were the first one to start smelling something foul with zabula's story.

Continue to post in here, cyber. Your contributions are valued.

[cyberinvestor]

Thank you Shari. I appreciate the post very much and you taking the time.

[KGambler]

If Bill or Lou feel I am spamming I will gladly stop. You have yet to attack my posts and what I say but instead just keep attacking me personally. I am not here to argue personal attacks back and forth.

The problem with addressing your posts is that they are so full of nonsense. How many hours of my week should I spend pointing out the ridiculous nature of your dozens of long-winded posts? I could sit here and take an hour or so to point out how your post addressed to me was all wrong. But why should I?

I will try and make my points very quickly...

1. It is OK to give opinions, even if you don't know what you are talking about. The problem is when you won't stop spamming these ridiculous opinions

2. It is not true that the people asking you to STFU all wanted to just pay the guy. Go read what I wrote. I wrote that we should wait for the actual evidence before making a firm decision either way. I said that 5Dimes either had proof of his using a bot or they did not.

3. Talking about the guys English or about the "impossibility" of playing so many hands does not constitute proof. It is not even close to impossible to play 20K hands of VP per day for days on end. People have played 1M hands of online poker in a single month. They did it to win prop bets. The people who were foolishly betting against them were making the same mistake as many in this thread... just because you cannot play 20K hands per day does not mean other people cannot do it.

4. You spread misinformation in this thread. It is very damaging for someone without a clue to go into the file 5Dimes provided and immediatley start thowing around fake facts and figures. Try to be more careful about engaging in "discussion" in the future.

You see? Your post was complete nonsense. Was it worth it to take the time to point this out? No, it was not.

[cyberinvestor]

You have not pointed anything out. Give me some examples. Copy my posts and show me what you say above. Once again, people attack me but I am waiting to see you copy a post I made and attack it.

[KGambler]

And in hindsight, you were the first one to start smelling something foul with zabula's story.

The problem is that someone should not be accused of cheating because you don't like their posting style or because you don't understand how many hands of VP can be played in an hour. There were undoubtedly many posters who suspected that the OP may have used a bot. That was not the main issue though. We cannot allow the books to confiscate funds based upon mere suspicions. They need to have proof.

If CI would actually go back and read what I wrote in this thread, he would see that I said we have to wait for both sides of the story and that we have to see what evidence 5Dimes can or cannot provide. Now he wants to pretend he was attacked for being the voice of reason, but he was attacked for not understanding the main issue (proof was needed) and for making many false and misleading statements. He is not in any way exhonerated by the fact 5Dimes showed proof of bot use. He was still wrong in his assumptions and he still spread misinformation and false facts and figures in this thread.

[KGambler]

You have not pointed anything out. Give me some examples. Copy my posts and show me what you say above. Once again, people attack me but I am waiting to see you copy a post I made and attack it.

What? I just went throught the main points of your post aimed at me.

No, I will not spend hours parsing through dozens of posts so that you can come back and claim I did not address your "points". Instead I will just put you on ignore.

[cyberinvestor]

What? I just went throught the main points of your post aimed at me.

No, I will not spend hours parsing through dozens of posts so that you can come back and claim I did not address your "points". Instead I will just put you on ignore.

You are going to take the time to attack me personally but you will not take the time to pull these various "nonsense" posts you seem to have memorized that allegedly I put forth. Very easy to make accusations and not post evidence........funny isn't that what you are accusing me of?????

In the initial posts on this thread I said something smelled funny. I never accused him of cheating until he started to change his stories and things got messy.

[cyberinvestor]

The problem is that someone should not be accused of cheating because you don't like their posting style or because you don't understand how many hands of VP can be played in an hour. There were undoubtedly many posters who suspected that the OP may have used a bot. That was not the main issue though. We cannot allow the books to confiscate funds based upon mere suspicions. They need to have proof.

If CI would actually go back and read what I wrote in this thread, he would see that I said we have to wait for both sides of the story and that we have to see what evidence 5Dimes can or cannot provide. Now he wants to pretend he was attacked for being the voice of reason, but he was attacked for not understanding the main issue (proof was needed) and for making many false and misleading statements. He is not in any way exhonerated by the fact 5Dimes showed proof of bot use. He was still wrong in his assumptions and he still spread misinformation and false facts and figures in this thread.

This is called circumstantial evidence. The more things add up the more a case builds. I did not attack him just for his writing style or play. It was the totality of everything that was building that went well beyond those items. I too waited for the hand history but in the mean time built my judgement (Mine, which is my right to make at any point) that he used a bot. I was right that he did. You may not like how I made the deduction but my deduction turned out to be correct.

I never said anything about you. You attacked me and I am responding. I was watching this thread and out of nowhere you felt the need to attack me and not any example.

[KGambler]

You are going to take the time to attack me personally but you will not take the time to pull these various "nonsense" posts you seem to have memorized that allegedly I put forth. Very easy to make accusations and not post evidence........funny isn't that what you are accusing me of?????

In the initial posts on this thread I said something smelled funny. I never accused him of cheating until he started to change his stories and things got messy.

Go back and read your own posts.

Your initial posts were babbling about denial of service attacks on 5Dimes, which you blamed on the OP and/or his supporters .

Your initial posts were babbling about the EZStreet sports case. You basically said that Cory must have used a bot, despite the fact that EZStreet has not been able to produce a single shred of evidence, that EZStreet was caught in many lies and that the game in question was -EV. At this point, with 5Dimes having provided actual evidence of bot use, even you should be able to see that the cases are nothing alike.

Your initial posts were babbling about how 99% of SBR posters don't play 20K hands of VP per day. So what? And you hinted it is not possible and is evidence of bot play. Many people have taken the time to point out to you how silly this assertion is. OP never even said he played 20K hands per day.

I know you won't understand this post, but I want to make sure other people understand how ridiculous your posts have been.

[wrongturn]

No problem with 5D to follow its rule completely in this case, even the no bot rule does not seem to be fair to me. But can't agree using bot is cheating, considering all online games are okay to "cheat" by using bots to deal hands.

[shari91]

The problem is that someone should not be accused of cheating because you don't like their posting style or because you don't understand how many hands of VP can be played in an hour.

100% agree. I also believe that works both ways - the posters who took zabula at his word after his first post to the point they concluded SBR would rule in Tony's favour because 5Dimes is an advertiser here are as much in the wrong as those who condemned him immediately. I didn't really get that sense from cyber though, although I admit I could've missed it. And astonishingly, those who declared zabula's innocence from the first second have now disappeared from this thread. (This is not directed at WVU - he is a different story and I have a lot of respect for how he handled himself throughout this whole case)

We cannot allow the books to confiscate funds based upon mere suspicions. They need to have proof.

Agree again. The thought of that is horrific. But I'm now starting to wonder after seeing quite a few of these cases where someone has been dishonest or in the very least not exactly 100% truthful - at what stage does the onus fall on them, if any? Purely a Shari question - nothing to do with SBR. I've just watched this unfold and seen yet again someone blatantly lie on here, wasting not only SBR's time but making some posters look ridiculous. Reading through the first 10 pages or so of this thread is painful - so many people crying foul whilst the rest of us either sat here waiting for facts to emerge or at the very least discussed the whole situation rationally. And then you add in the shills?/Tony haters, etc... who immediately went on a mission to disparage 5Dimes and SBR. Either by starting threads, bumping old ones, or by posting stuff to the effect of "zomg i hate tony man 5Dimez suckzzzzz and sbr suckzzzzz 2".

When does the player become accountable for filing a dispute, or even threatening to file one in the hope the book will cave at the mention of SBR, dishonestly? A dispute that draws the attention of multiple forums?

Whatever one may think about what payout zabula should/shouldn't receive, I'd hope the regular posters in here at least consider the implications of filing a false report, in public, against a major book, in the casino, of this, beyond the simple bot use alleged/payout worthy or no payout? kind of dispute.

[KGambler]

100% agree. I also believe that works both ways - the posters who took zabula at his word after his first post to the point they concluded SBR would rule in Tony's favour because 5Dimes is an advertiser here are as much in the wrong as those who condemned him immediately. I didn't really get that sense from cyber though, although I admit I could've missed it. And astonishingly, those who declared zabula's innocence from the first second have now disappeared from this thread. (This is not directed at WVU - he is a different story and I have a lot of respect for how he handled himself throughout this whole case)



Agree again. The thought of that is horrific. But I'm now starting to wonder after seeing quite a few of these cases where someone has been dishonest or in the very least not exactly 100% truthful - at what stage does the onus fall on them, if any? Purely a Shari question - nothing to do with SBR. I've just watched this unfold and seen yet again someone blatantly lie on here, wasting not only SBR's time but making some posters look ridiculous. Reading through the first 10 pages or so of this thread is painful - so many people crying foul whilst the rest of us either sat here waiting for facts to emerge or at the very least discussed the whole situation rationally. And then you add in the shills?/Tony haters, etc... who immediately went on a mission to disparage 5Dimes and SBR. Either by starting threads, bumping old ones, or by posting stuff to the effect of "zomg i hate tony man 5Dimez suckzzzzz and sbr suckzzzzz 2".

When does the player become accountable for filing a dispute, or even threatening to file one in the hope the book will cave at the mention of SBR, dishonestly? A dispute that draws the attention of multiple forums?

Whatever one may think about what payout zabula should/shouldn't receive, I'd hope the regular posters in here at least consider the implications of filing a false report, in public, against a major book, in the casino, of this beyond the simple bot use/payout or no dispute.

Good points.

Dealing with these kinds of complaints comes with the territory for SBR. It is unfortunate. I don't see any way to stop it though.

And Tony does seem to have many haters. Don't worry. They aren't gone. They are just waiting for the next 5Dimes thread.

[cyberinvestor]

KGambler, again I posted in the initial thread my observations and there is no denying those observations. As soon as this was posted then a bunch of old 5dimes sucks threads were bumped back up.

Sorry I found it funny that the day this thread gets hot that a DOS attack was launched on 5Dimes. I never accused anyone specifically but I did find it interesting and made note of it. Sorry but a DOS attack happened and it was a strange coincidence.

You are right, many people did show me how 20,000 hands were possible in a day. We had a discussion and I freely admitted my error and lack of knowledge. Those people attacked my post and not me. That issue was resolved in the subsequent discussion. I freely admitted my error. I am not a bot so I am not perfect. Then it came out he was playing 20,000 for days at a time and I said "come on" don't tell me this is just a degenerate gambler.

So again, you may not like what I said or how I came to my assessment but it was correct. My observations were not made up. As an attorney I see so many disputes every day. In my position you learn to make deductions and read between lines. Sometimes you are right and sometimes wrong. In my opinion for a variety of reasons it was easy for me to deduce what went on here. Then the evidence came out and I was correct.

There have been a few people who challenged my posts on legal matters and legal precedent in this thread. I responded and they agreed with my responses. I don't mind you doing the same but you are translating what you read and how you saw it in your mind but not (still) copying one single post I made and saying how I was off base.

[bettilimbroke999]

5Dimes temporarily offered a +EV online casino game, a game that was expected to lose money, it lost a little money, that was their decision to offer the game, is it the players responsibility to insure that 5Dimes casino games are -EV. Pay that man, pay that man his money.

[ouman101]

This is just like all of your other posts... full of such total and complete nonsense that it is not even worth addressing. Is there a way to put a poster on ignore???

Yes, and you should definitely take advantage of it. I already blocked cyber because the guy just rambles on and on, repeating the same stuff over and over. I tried to explain to him through PM that it was fine to express his opinion, but he was unnecessarily spamming this thread...to no use obviously.

Just click on settings at the top, click on the 'ignore list' on the left side, and add his name. Then all you will see in the thread is: This message is hidden because cyberinvestor is on your ignore list. For this thread, you'll see it about every other post

[dikefale]

Is there any evidence that player did use a bot except many hours played within 3 days?
I can bet continuously 2 days straight with just maybe 5,6 hours of sleep and some pause for bath and to eat. Can you say that i'm using bot?

[Ryangene]

Still think SBR should be down-graded in this case.

[cyberinvestor]

I cannot believe the bitter people. I didn't realize my posting was so infuriating to a few people. People say I was spamming but nobody can point out how I was spamming. I have been told my posts are nonsense yet nobody copies a post as evidence. I never attacked any individual directly, but the anger is amazing. Just amazing.

[KGambler]

Is there any evidence that player did use a bot except many hours played within 3 days?

Yes. Read the thread. It had to do with the number of seconds his breaks lasted.

[shari91]

Is there any evidence that player did use a bot except many hours played within 3 days? I can bet continuously 2 days straight with just maybe 5,6 hours of sleep and some pause for bath and to eat. Can you say that i'm using bot?

Here's a start. And only a couple of pages back in this thread

Sorry for the long post here. Just looking at the first file, and comparing the date and the rounded length of the "breaks". Look at the similar length breaks all occurring on the same day / playing session. This is pure bot.

Thursday, April 21, 2011 575.5
Thursday, April 21, 2011 575.5
Wednesday, April 20, 2011 575.4
Wednesday, April 20, 2011 575.3
Wednesday, April 20, 2011 575.1
Saturday, April 16, 2011 567.5
Saturday, April 16, 2011 567.4
Saturday, April 16, 2011 567.4
Saturday, April 16, 2011 567.4
Friday, April 15, 2011 567.3
Thursday, April 14, 2011 564.8
Thursday, April 14, 2011 564.4
Thursday, April 14, 2011 564.4
Thursday, April 14, 2011 564.3
Thursday, April 14, 2011 564.3
Monday, April 18, 2011 563.7
Sunday, April 17, 2011 563.4
Monday, April 18, 2011 563.4
Monday, April 18, 2011 563.2
Thursday, April 14, 2011 542.5
Friday, April 15, 2011 542.5
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 523.4
Wednesday, April 06, 2011 523.4
Wednesday, April 06, 2011 523.4
Wednesday, April 06, 2011 523.3
Wednesday, April 06, 2011 523.3
Tuesday, April 12, 2011 516.8
Monday, April 11, 2011 516.6
Monday, April 11, 2011 516.3
Monday, April 11, 2011 516.3
Monday, April 11, 2011 516.2
Saturday, April 02, 2011 500.5
Saturday, April 02, 2011 500.3
Saturday, April 02, 2011 500.3
Saturday, April 02, 2011 500.3
Saturday, April 02, 2011 500.2
Friday, April 22, 2011 493.4
Friday, April 22, 2011 493.4
Friday, April 01, 2011 491.5
Friday, April 01, 2011 491.4
Friday, April 01, 2011 491.3
Friday, April 01, 2011 491.3
Friday, April 01, 2011 491.3
Tuesday, April 19, 2011 487.5
Tuesday, April 19, 2011 487.4
Wednesday, April 20, 2011 487.4
Tuesday, April 19, 2011 487.2
Friday, April 08, 2011 485.6
Friday, April 08, 2011 485.4
Friday, April 08, 2011 485.4
Saturday, April 09, 2011 485.3
Saturday, April 09, 2011 485.2

[jairocon]

I must say that I am a bit disappointed with the conclusion.

1.) timestamps are not 100% proof of a bot play - they might be 99% but not 100%.
2.) saying this was +EV so the player's money wasn't at risk is just silly
3.) refunding losses starting March 1st is just a poor-man's PR stunt... why not refund losses since the beginning of the game? Or at least the first verified post date that mentions the rigged game?

I still think the player should have been paid and booted.

Anyway, glad it's over.

[blix177]

Lame when you win and they don't let you cash out.