UK books & Arbing

**Hareeba!** · 05-10-11, 06:47 PM

arbing generally means you are picking off the best odds available anywhere
if you want to make any reasonable money doing that you have to bet large enough for it to be worthwhile
doing that regularly will put you under notice and you'll be limited savagely and quickly

**subs** · 05-10-11, 07:19 PM

i been banned after 2 losing bets! i wasn't even arbing - just shopping for a good line in tennis

**Hareeba!** · 05-10-11, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by subs

i been banned after 2 losing bets! i wasn't even arbing - just shopping for a good line in tennis

yeah, that does happen

the books can't differentiate between an arber and a keen price shopper (and to them there's no difference anyway as the effect is the same), they just lump them all together and treat them as arbers

**subs** · 05-10-11, 07:55 PM

not sure it only an arbing thing. they just shade their lines and toss any1 who plays the other side even for $100... at the same time bragging on their great lines and industry leading blah blah blah.

yea great lines that u can't hit!

to OP just MPOV, open the accounts, hit the lines and get tossed. if u want to make money arbing long term, u gotta be seriously techno or fraudulent or prolly both. don't recommend the latter. the only tip i can give u is consider only playing the "soft" side. if u make enough plays it will even itself out (in all likelihood) and ur not paying 2X the juice. saves on fees and u r way less likely to make a costly mistake when u get a bet refunded because of a bad line or whatever and u just lost a limit bet and a whole months 3% ers.

good luck

**diondublin** · 05-10-11, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

arbing generally means you are picking off the best odds available anywhere
if you want to make any reasonable money doing that you have to bet large enough for it to be worthwhile
doing that regularly will put you under notice and you'll be limited savagely and quickly

What sort of amounts would we be talking about for UK horseracing, let's say, at early prices?

**Hareeba!** · 05-10-11, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by diondublin

What sort of amounts would we be talking about for UK horseracing, let's say, at early prices?

All my experience with the Euro books and being limited was betting on sports

Until more recently I never bet on UK racing but from reports they are far more tolerant than for sports

I now do play (via another's account) on UK racing but only in the morning taking a fixed price with SP guarantee and it seems they limit to win $1000

**jazzmonkey** · 05-10-11, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

All my experience with the Euro books and being limited was betting on sports

Until more recently I never bet on UK racing but from reports they are far more tolerant than for sports

I now do play (via another's account) on UK racing but only in the morning taking a fixed price with SP guarantee and it seems they limit to win $1000

I have heard differently - they are as tolerant on horses as they are for sports, ie not at all

**zebras99** · 05-11-11, 01:17 AM

UK bookies will limit you severy and in a short time if you start hitting the best odds or closing lines. Doesn't matter if you're arbing or not.

**BranchDavidian** · 05-11-11, 01:31 AM

I don't believe it is possible to arb horseracing. There are too many possible outcomes.

**Hareeba!** · 05-11-11, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by BranchDavidian

I don't believe it is possible to arb horseracing. There are too many possible outcomes.

Actually the more outcomes for an event the more likely one can find arbs. I don't arb as a rule but when I have a freeplay I always look to arb it on a golf tournament at an exchange. Rarely do I not find one on a Thursday.

It certainly is possible to find books offering a fixed price against a horse which you can lay at shorter odds on Betfair - i know one punter who's main betting strategy is doing just that - but many more trade them and making a good living at it.

**chachi** · 05-11-11, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by BranchDavidian

I don't believe it is possible to arb horseracing. There are too many possible outcomes.

horse arbing is 90-odd percent back/lay not dutching/backing the entire field.

I guarantee one can find at least one arb on every single UK horse race every single day of the year between EP and post time, and I don't mean legging into something taking an EP and waiting to lay it off closer to post, it's almost too easy to be honest.

But, UK books are even worse about limiting you if you hammer out of line EPs than they are about football/etc ...

**Santo** · 05-11-11, 10:44 AM

They're also super-fast to limit if you take advantage of the E/W terms.

**chachi** · 05-11-11, 11:24 AM

especially at Ladbrokes with their often laughable place-only offerings

once saw even money to win (with E/W 3 places being 1/4 win odds) and 1/2 to place in their secondary place-only market

**Carloschihuahua** · 05-12-11, 11:14 AM

In my opinion, the UK bookmakers are a little more serious than the average european bookmaker. The Uk bookmakers actually limit people taking advantage of the odds, other european book such as betsson, betway, unibet etc will limit you for whatever reason.

I have been limited on betsson for placing a 500€ bet on odds that was lower than industry standard.

**diondublin** · 05-12-11, 08:13 PM

[quote=subs;9944994]not sure it only an arbing thing. they just shade their lines and toss any1 who plays the other side even for $100... at the same time bragging on their great lines and industry leading blah blah blah.

yea great lines that u can't hit!

to OP just MPOV, open the accounts, hit the lines and get tossed. if u want to make money arbing long term,

No I do not want to arb, but I DO want to take best price.

Thusly the worry is I will be tagged as an arber, when in fact I simply want a straight bet.

**diondublin** · 05-12-11, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by zebras99

UK bookies will limit you severy and in a short time if you start hitting the best odds or closing lines. Doesn't matter if you're arbing or not.

Why do they offer these odds (for early price horseracing) if they don't want to lay them? They could simply cut the price in a way that they can't in two-team matches to protect themselves, going to a higher percentage on the event.

I think it is a loss-leader, intended to 'give a little back' to the generally-losing punter.

Any views or information on this?

**diondublin** · 05-12-11, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

Actually the more outcomes for an event the more likely one can find arbs. I don't arb as a rule but when I have a freeplay I always look to arb it on a golf tournament at an exchange. Rarely do I not find one on a Thursday.

It certainly is possible to find books offering a fixed price against a horse which you can lay at shorter odds on Betfair - i know one punter who's main betting strategy is doing just that - but many more trade them and making a good living at it.

How does he get away with it? What sort of volume does he have?

**diondublin** · 05-12-11, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by chachi

horse arbing is 90-odd percent back/lay not dutching/backing the entire field.

I guarantee one can find at least one arb on every single UK horse race every single day of the year between EP and post time, and I don't mean legging into something taking an EP and waiting to lay it off closer to post, it's almost too easy to be honest.

But, UK books are even worse about limiting you if you hammer out of line EPs than they are about football/etc ...

What causes them to quote 'out-of line EPs'?

**chachi** · 05-12-11, 10:26 PM

because they're early ... the market is still in its infancy liquidity-wise on the exchanges and are not really being live tracked at the books so sudden moves on the exchanges usually see the books getting caught out